Chinese TV anchor Bi Fujian off air after criticising Mao

sometimes_naive

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I am sure they do mock India.

Indeed, you mock someone you are worried about and India is moving fast to make the change that worries China.
Both India and China are changing fast but aslo have severals of problems.The india often mock the Chinese democracy and human rights.Obviously,Chinese are lack of democracy and freedom,but the get great prograss in the human rights.Now,the Chinese people is very freedom in many facts,Only if they did attack the CCP,and some of comments that attack the CCP are also permited,you can use the Google translation to read the comments on the Wangyi website and KaiDi forum.If Old Bi lived in 30 years ago,he would be put into the prison in Xinjiang or Heilongjiang and even be killed,but now after he apologized,he will return to the TV in the next week.The CCP are aslo trying too change themselves all the time.Otherwise,they can't govern the China until today.Today's CCP are now more like the KMT in Taiwan and the Southern Koera before 1988.They trust the State capitalism,not the regular Commuist party.
 

Ray

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Both India and China are changing fast but aslo have severals of problems.The india often mock the Chinese democracy and human rights.Obviously,Chinese are lack of democracy and freedom,but the get great prograss in the human rights.Now,the Chinese people is very freedom in many facts,Only if they did attack the CCP,and some of comments that attack the CCP are also permited,you can use the Google translation to read the comments on the Wangyi website and KaiDi forum.If Old Bi lived in 30 years ago,he would be put into the prison in Xinjiang or Heilongjiang and even be killed,but now after he apologized,he will return to the TV in the next week.The CCP are aslo trying too change themselves all the time.Otherwise,they can't govern the China until today.Today's CCP are now more like the KMT in Taiwan and the Southern Koera before 1988.They trust the State capitalism,not the regular Commuist party.
Mocks Chinese democracy?

Are you aware what is democracy?

One of the cardinal principle is :

Democracy is a system of government in which a country's political leaders are chosen by the people in regular, free, and fair elections. In a democracy, people have a choice between different candidates and parties who want the power to govern. The people can criticize and replace their elected leaders and representatives if they do not perform well. The people are sovereign—they are the highest authority—and government is based on the will of the people. Elected representatives at the national and local levels must listen to the people and be responsive to their needs.
So, all this happens in China?

In China political leaders are chosen by the people in regular, free, and fair elections?

In China, people have a choice between different candidates and parties who want the power to govern?

Or The people can criticize and replace their elected leaders and representatives if they do not perform well?

Are the Chinese people sovereign— that they are the highest authority—and government is based on the will of the people?

Chew on that.

In so far as the remainder of your contentions in the post - Just an opening in a dark mine tunnel, does not make one feel that he has reached level ground outside and breathing fresh air.
 

Compersion

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one has pick the words carefully - what is being said is PRC now is like Taiwan (KMT - Chiang Kai Shek) and South Korea (Park Chung-hee) and even Singapore (Lee Kaun Yew) during the early days.

it is like a technical analysis evaluation where one is looking a financial chart and exploring reason and when one get a sense something aligns goes eureka!! it is also making a bold and important achievement and target in the near future - accomplishment of proper universal suffrage (probably through the son - daughter of President Xi - :laugh:) and transparent rule of law because that is what Taiwan (KMT - Chiang Kai Shek) and South Korea (Park Chung-hee) and even Singapore (Lee Kaun Yew) crystallized into.

the technical analysis also needs to observe hong kong and macau because those are having even more specific target and achievements in the near future and have already crossed and passed the baton on many parameters. plus like with the clip show above it is much deeper and advanced that meets the eye (use of Information Technology for the naive but far more complex for the others). i really feel that one cannot game people into feeling and believing and promising them something it really degrades people to feel like they are being treated to be not good.

also one has to observe other princples and the modern ages we live in prove that Chiang Kai Shek and Park Chung-hee and even Lee Kaun Yew would not have such long time, mistakes and variables available like they did. we even saw that when lee kaun yew become senior minister and his use of technology and administration evolution.

Chaos theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Randomness - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PRC is huge country with billion people. The numbers and character is huge and massive. CCTV is not the only thing in town.
 

amoy

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a slight correction for @Compersion -

the Chiang who's usually mentioned is not Chiang Kai-shek, but his son Chiang Ching-kuo for the economic take-off and political reforms in Taiwan.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiang_Ching-kuo

Chiang Jr. spent 12 years in Soviet Union under Stalin and married a Belarussian wife. it was under his stewardship that Taiwan's rise was attained as one of Four Tigers along with S.Korea, Singapore and Hong Kong.

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~
 
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Compersion

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@amoy

i would have thought it be more succinct if the formula is the sons - daughter of Taiwan (KMT - Chiang Kai Shek) and South Korea (Park Chung-hee) and even Singapore (Lee Kaun Yew) who took the sweet taste of the nectar and part of the economic take-off and political reforms

Chiang Ching-kuo
Park Geun-hye
Lee Hsien Loong

The process of Chiang Kai Shek, Park Chung-hee, Lee Kaun Yew and the early "non-democratic" traditions enabled these to develop a successful and prosperous democratic with universal suffrage economic arrangement

Chiang Ching-Kuo some say is out of the three above with the best track record. But obviously the latter two still not yet finish ...

Is it the new rationes decidendi of PRC to say that "non-democratic" traditions like populated by the (Chinese) Chiang Kai Shek, Park Chung-hee, Lee Kaun Yew are needed to get to the stage of Singapore, Taiwan and South Korea like Chiang Ching-kuo, Park Geun-hye, Lee Hsien Loong that ultimately PRC wants to achieve (forget the fact that many rich PRC people are emigrating to such havens)

Fascinating but i would think the times we are living are not at all comparable to the times of Chiang Ching-kuo, Park Geun-hye, Lee Hsien Loong. CCP ought to simply not promise anything and tell its people you dont go along with what you wish but with what you have ...

Someone with unknown known knowledge had once said:

As you know, you go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.
That ought to be the only CCP slogan for its people and followers. Today (who knows tomorrow) "debt does not matter" - fascinating times.
 
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Ray

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I want to ask you a question--what means the Laogai?
Laogai, the abbreviation for Láodòng Gǎizào (勞動改造/劳动改造), which means "reform through labor," is a slogan of the Chinese criminal justice system and has been used to refer to the use of penal labour and prison farms in the People's Republic of China (PRC) which takes up more than half of the world's slaves. It is estimated that in the last fifty years, more than 50 million people have been sent to laogai camps.

Laogai is distinguished from laojiao, or re-education through labor, which is an administrative detention for a person who is not a criminal but has committed minor offenses, and is intended to reform offenders into law-abiding citizens. Persons detained under laojiao are detained in facilities that are separate from the general prison system of laogai. Both systems, however, involve penal labor.

In 1990 China abandoned the term laogai and started classifying the facilities as "prisons" instead. China's 1997 revised Criminal Procedure Law brought an end to open laogai policy.

Wiki
 

amoy

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I agree with @Compersion that among the 3, Chiang Jr. had the most down-to-earth experience / best groomed for governing ~~

- 12 years of Soviet life including his work at a steel factory (so called proletariat)

- leading social reform experiment in rural areas and abortive Shanghai anti-graft campaign + financial reform in Mainland China

- head of secret police ; defence minister; premiership

Korea and Taiwan witnessed an more endogenous process of either radical or gradual self transforming at all layers along with economic and literacy upgrade, unlike Indian "democracy" that was exogenously imposed on colonies.



~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~
 
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rockey 71

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A nation can only be judged by its own sociocultural standards. You don't criticize Mao in China. Never. He is more than the Father of the Nation. He is regarded like a semi-god sort.
 

Compersion

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@amoy like your scientific use of terms will use them: would like to place some thoughts down to explore different angles.

Not sure what the reference to India is and it being exogenously imposed on colonies ... Singapore and Hong Kong and Macau ? is there something wrong with a colonial history is it a hindrance ? One must also appreciate PRC was having only endogenous growth until the Pakis came in late 1960s and early 1970s and helped opened up the PRC economy and brought the Americans in and later NATO, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea economies and WTO frameworks. I suppose it links to also say PRC is a exogenous type entity with the aim to be a endogenous concern suddenly.

If you want to compare exogenous and endogenous growth nearby PRC look at Japan. They are one of the primary reason why South Korea and Taiwan boomed and continues to (and PRC). Taiwan , Singapore, South Korea + Japan.

I am not fully knowledgeable about Chiang Jr like you seem to state but know my overview of him. The linkage to Japan is far more advantageous to him and Taiwan compare to Soviet Union and China and later PRC. I suppose you are trying to make a reference between Chiang Jr and President Xi. To justify the rule of President Xi. Is this one of the chapters in President Xi red book (have you read it). I get your style of approach. But I dont understand why that continues to happen in PRC a sense of promise and certain fulfillment to attain a target (of democracy). Why does PRC need democracy at all and ever. Whatever !! I think what you are trying to say is Chiang Jr had the benefit and agreement to what Jacky Chan said:

Chinese shouldn't get more freedom, says Jackie Chan - Asia - World - The Independent

I'm not sure if it's good to have freedom or not. I'm really confused now. If you're too free, you're like the way Hong Kong is now. It's very chaotic. Taiwan is also chaotic," Chan, 55, told the Boao Forum for Asia – a regional conference modelled on the World Economic Forum in Davos – when pressed by fellow panel members to take a stance against rigorous control of the media on the mainland and to give his views on suffocating censorship in the growing Chinese film market.

"I'm gradually beginning to feel that we Chinese need to be controlled. If we're not being controlled, we'll just do what we want," he said.
Forget democracy the Chinese people dont need to it be successful !!

Also your use of the scientific terms needs careful use. Because factually a endogenous process is having democracy. Taiwan politics is dynamic economy today and one can read their constitution (which is really a Chinese peoples constitution). Taiwan has done a lot of work for PRC people. How they reached where they are today Chiang Jr was integral part. I really dont think PRC can handle a Lee Teng Hui and even a Park Geun-hye and to some extent Lee Hsien Loong that are where they are because of a endogenous process. Even a Ma Ying-jeou is read by a constitution and a new leader will be in Taiwan which is a endogenous process. They have come through their own systems. The systems are absent in PRC and it would be chaos to even think how such a system would work in PRC unless one looks at Taiwan carefully and with care. The economic world has taught everyone today (not sure about tomorrow) that debt does not matter. What this mean is economic reasoning and happiness will not be the reason for change. Low interest rates all over the world has provided ammunition to many to continue where they would normal fail. There is no endogenous process about that.

How Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea started needs to be understood. PRC is far far away from its start. A example is Mao Zedong a person who has passed away in 1970s continue to impact modern PRC people and someone made a clip and people got excited.

PRC people needs to start by look at India founding fathers more to be honest. I would wish PRC have a endogenous start like India did and not like European Union and United States of America. Large country with large population has different endogenous and exogenous (start) process.
 
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sometimes_naive

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Laogai, the abbreviation for Láodòng Gǎizào (勞動改造/劳动改造), which means "reform through labor," is a slogan of the Chinese criminal justice system and has been used to refer to the use of penal labour and prison farms in the People's Republic of China (PRC) which takes up more than half of the world's slaves. It is estimated that in the last fifty years, more than 50 million people have been sent to laogai camps.

Laogai is distinguished from laojiao, or re-education through labor, which is an administrative detention for a person who is not a criminal but has committed minor offenses, and is intended to reform offenders into law-abiding citizens. Persons detained under laojiao are detained in facilities that are separate from the general prison system of laogai. Both systems, however, involve penal labor.

In 1990 China abandoned the term laogai and started classifying the facilities as "prisons" instead. China's 1997 revised Criminal Procedure Law brought an end to open laogai policy.

Wiki
Oh,the Laogai is surely a disputed system.Though I don't agree the Chinese gov sent dissidents to the prisons,but I think the Laogai is a not a bad system.The taxpayers should not use their money to support the thieves' and the manslayer's life.They should support themselves,and they can aslo get a lot incomes and reduce the time that they stayed in the prison.
 

Ray

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Oh,the Laogai is surely a disputed system.Though I don't agree the Chinese gov sent dissidents to the prisons,but I think the Laogai is a not a bad system.The taxpayers should not use their money to support the thieves' and the manslayer's life.They should support themselves,and they can aslo get a lot incomes and reduce the time that they stayed in the prison.
There is no system that can be disputed.

If it were so, then the system would vanish along with the dictatorship of the Communist Party of China.

Of course Laogai is a great system.

Falung Gong, Tibetan monks, Uighur academics, dissidents, those who stand up for human rights etc etc are all thieves and manslayers, right?

I am sure you will justify that it is ganhua (陆甘华) that has three essential components: forced labor, moral instruction, and basic education.

See how nice Laogais are that you so proudly praise.

 
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sorcerer

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Chinese man jailed for splashing ink on Mao Zedong portrait
BEIJING (AP) — A Chinese man was sentenced to 14 months in jail for splashing ink on the giant portrait of Communist revolutionary leader Mao Zedong in the heart of Beijing, state media reported Wednesday.

The Legal Evening News said a Beijing court convicted Sun Bing, 42, for disrupting public order by throwing ink at the portrait overlooking sprawling Tiananmen Square on March 6 last year, when the country's legislature was meeting in its annual session.

It said Sun was caught at the scene and admitted the crime in court.

The newspaper did not say what motivated Sun. People with grievances sometimes attempt to attract attention on or near the square when the legislature meets in the Great Hall of People on the square's east side. It said Sun was once convicted of credit card fraud and freed in 2013 after serving 17 months in prison.

Evidence of the ink attack was quickly cleaned up, and order was rapidly restored on the square, which is usually heavily guarded and has extra security personnel in March when the National People's Congress convenes.

The portrait of Mao, the founder of Communist China, carries great political significance because it enshrines him as a pillar of the Communist Party's rule.

Chinese man jailed for splashing ink on Mao Zedong portrait
 

Ray

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Imagine such a thing being done on the Great Helmsman.

But then I am sure this man is '30% right and 70% wrong'.
 

Zeratul

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Imagine such a thing being done on the Great Helmsman.

But then I am sure this man is '30% right and 70% wrong'.
Do you mean if without mao ,China will be more powerful than Now ?
 

Ray

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Do you mean if without mao ,China will be more powerful than Now ?
I would not know.

But while he was alive, nobody could bring China down even though much was done to ensure China was isolated, reviled and not helped.

Given what China was when the Communist took over, he built the foundation by making a lazy, opium addicted, agrarian society into a responsive society, even if his ways were harsh and violative of human rights.

I do not appreciate his ways, but then I will not hesitate to acknowledge that he was the man who laid the foundation to what China is today.

The Chinese have been 'trained' to be responsive to the Govt and not be in a freewheeling mass doing what they like.
 
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nimo_cn

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rumors have it that Bi was executed.

Sent from my HUAWEI P7-L07 using Tapatalk 2
 

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