The great game: Myanmar bombed China

amoy

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Rohingyas have taken refuge in China?

That is news.

Whatever, it is China sovereign right to react to bombing by Myanmar in China's territory to react.

I don't think anyone can deny that.

However, given China's close relationship, I am sure it will be solved by dialogue. China should not support the ethnic Han in Myanmar and Myanmar should be more receptive to Chinese sensitivity there.

Is that a Chinese National Flag at the refugee camp or a Myanmar flag.

If it is Chinese, then it shows the Chinese influence and lack of Myanmar's control.
for your info - around 20-40 thousand Rohingyas in Yunnan reportedly.




the refugees are on the Chinese side in the abv pic. Over 60,000 Myanmar refugee arrivals in China since conflict outbreak - See more at: http://www.rna-press.com/en/news/28498.html#sthash.VxFfJnOh.dpuf




Precisely not "ethnic han", but many cross-border tribes , Kokang, Wa, Kachin who share the Chinese culture.
 
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brational

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Seems china made all arrangements for refugees well in advance. Permanent structure, Feel at home treatment and even taught them to hold Chinese flag. China is doing much of social work for Burmese refugees. A good time ahead for Myanmar as Myanmar may end up accepting 600000 refuges back instead of 60k once situation becomes normal.
 

Compersion

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i dont understand if something nasty happens from across the border to PRC by someone the PRC start immediately thinking that that someone has misconducted and that they needs to have interference into the others internal affairs to fix the problem. What happen to dialogue and perhaps reconciliation and discussion to find out what the problem is. (** The Pakis have caused a lot of attacks in Xinjiang - is that the reason why PRC wants to interfere there more).

refugees are going to PRC areas from Myanmar where they consider it safer and perhaps "returning" to where they originally came after being told they are unwelcome. wont be surprised if these people assimilate quickly into the yunnan populace. the pictures also suggest facilities are varied and differential according to the type of people they are.

fact is that someone bombed the territory in PRC. and a lot of states across Asia Pacific have taken notice of the response of PRC. was it a mistake - was it intentional and planned. was this against the Kokangs of Chinese affinity. the response of PRC has a lot of dimensions because the leadership of PRC views the whole chinese people to be child like and emotional and suspect to subjective reasoning.

Some might also say that calling the Myanmar ambassador was proportional response and a signal that Myanmar wont be reprimanded more (PRC agreement to what Myanmar did). Not sure if the PRC public will accept that. there is some story of local gang lord which might need to be pumped up more.

also the danger is that people who are Buddhist will see them to be different with people from with PRC affinity. And this might waken up a lot of Asia-Pacific countries and even some beyond. Since religion is not important in PRC such groups will look at it really in terms of interference.

a lot of north koreans and prc people were also fleeing through the yunnan border ... perhaps all we will see from this is the border will get more reinforced between Myanmar and PRC.

Not everything is about money ...

but i am sure PRC will coool this down and play it to the local audience like they did something but the diplomats will resolve it to maintain status qua. the few prc leaders and diplomats that are in control are pragmatic. which is good.

Can we say that Myanmar has made its point known ...
 

prohumanity

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It's more complicated than it sounds. China is preparing a BCIM (BURMA_CHINA-INDIA-BANGLA DESH) trade corridor for a free flow of trade thru these 4 nations. There has to be a foreign element who is instigating these episodes to derail this upcoming trade route. We don't know who is creating trouble in Myanmar?
 

Samar Rathi

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Why China can't get too angry at Burma for dropping bombs

BEIJING -- For days, the anger has grown online.

After a bomb from a Burmese aircraft killed four Chinese near the China-Burma border, many Chinese have been expressing their outrage on the Internet -- not only against the Burmese government but against their own for not taking a harder stance.

So far, Chinese leaders have complained to Burma, also known as Myanmar, about the bombing, which occurred on Chinese soil, and sent a few jets on a symbolic patrol of the border, but they haven't gone much further. And while Chinese leaders have often eagerly fanned the flames of nationalistic anger in the past, they have tried hard to tamp down such sentiments in this case -- going as far as censoring online posts about the incident and paying off the victims' families.

The surprising restraint highlights the delicate nature of China's relationship these days with Burma. China has been trying to preserve and rebuild its ties with Burma in recent years amid that country's transition from an authoritarian, military-run government and its surprising overtures to the West.

[Here's why students in Burma are taking to the streets]

Burma remains a large importer of Chinese weapons. Many of its biggest projects are Chinese-backed or owned -- an arrangement that allows China to secure energy and raw materials that are crucial to sustaining its ever-expanding economy.

But those diplomatic and strategic niceties have not blunted popular opinion in China as news of Friday's bombing has spread.

The bomb fell in a border village of China's Yunnan province, near where the Burmese government has been fighting rebels in its Kokang region. Burma has blamed the bombing on rebel forces. But China says the bomb was clearly dropped by a Burmese air force plane.

Comments in Chinese social media have ranged from sarcastic to mocking to outright demanding.

"Is this because the Chinese people are so cheap and can only die for nothing?" "All Chinese military is good for is drinking Maotai [a kind of luxury wine used to bribe corrupt officials]?" "Imagine how this would have played out if the bombing happened to the U.S.?"

As of Tuesday, many online comments had already been censored. China's local government has also paid each victim's family $3,200 as compensation.

Even China's most nationalistic paper, the Global Times -- which is published by China's official People's Daily -- has tried to ease public anger. On Monday, an opinion piece argued, "Your brain must be injected with water if you think Myanmar's military is dropping bombs on purpose."

China, it argued, is not like the United States and will not go around killing people for little reason.

Why China can’t get too angry at Burma for dropping bombs - The Washington Post
 

amoy

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China doesn't have to get angry but needs to make Myanmar military rulers understand abuse of force in resolving dispats with minority groups is not acceptable and that's no longer an "internal" affair.

Their negotiations ongoing probably lead to a federation where minorities have high-level autonomy in favor of those cross-border ethnicities friendly with China.

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~
 

Ray

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China doesn't have to get angry but needs to make Myanmar military rulers understand abuse of force in resolving dispats with minority groups is not acceptable and that's no longer an "internal" affair.

Their negotiations ongoing probably lead to a federation where minorities have high-level autonomy in favor of those cross-border ethnicities friendly with China.

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~
I don't think it would be a wise step for China to do anything that would appear that it assisted in the demand of a federation with connection with communities across the border since that would give rise to speculation amongst neighbouring countries and the world that China has 'other' intentions that is not quite acceptable with the world.
 

Jatt.Hindustan

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We should close ranks with burma as it only follows varn.

Our relations are only strained due to 70yrs of cong
 

amoy

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furthermore China shall take this chance to shake off the outdated thinking to deal only with the incumbent i.e. the Naypyitaw junta while Suu Kyi and her Democratic League have been left high and dry. the previously shelved invitation for her shall be extended IMO.

it's politically incorrect to be seen as hanging on to the military rulers who intrinsically carry an "original sin" and don't cater to Chinese interest. that taints Chinese image as well. Burmese would assume China is a road block to their transition to democracy too.

Suu Kyi has proven to be friendly with China. it's good to hv her keeping the heavyhanded chauvinistic military in check, along with several minority forces.

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~
 

Ray

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Myanmar is a chaotic country, where the Govt's writ does not run in quite a lot of areas and instead, the writ of the various armed factions run.

The military junta has a grip over the areas their writ runs and they will hold onto the same. All this 'transition' to democracy is merely to please the West and get some development and aid going, as also making it easy for democratic nations like India to assist without any inhibitions.

Aung San Syu Kyi has been somewhat appeased, but with an English husband and long association with the West, she appears to be wedded to the West and will toe their line. Of course, as a politician, she is well versed to realise that conciliatory noise to all have to be made for the betterment of Myanmar.

There is no chance in the near future of the Central Govt of Myanmar to tame the rebels or armed factions, if you will, that hold the outer fringes to ransom.
 

Compersion

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according to above the it seems it is similar to Sri Lanka and LTTE - what next -> PRC peace keeping force ...

also in recent times in Sri Lanka the PRC came in some say to prop up against the minority and help and support Sri Lanka ...

Mynamar knows that PRC is not India (in flavor and substance). But also the PRC diplomats and leaders are pragmatic and they will look at the bigger picture at the expense of public opinion.
 

amoy

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according to above the it seems it is similar to Sri Lanka and LTTE - what next -> PRC peace keeping force ...

also in recent times in Sri Lanka the PRC came in some say to prop up against the minority and help and support Sri Lanka ...

Mynamar knows that PRC is not India (in flavor and substance). But also the PRC diplomats and leaders are pragmatic and they will look at the bigger picture at the expense of public opinion.
Disagree to your drawing Myanmar a paralell to SL/LTTE. But let's not expand this here.

Speaking of "public opinion" I saw in person how Burmese disdained the military regime. A lady pointed at the portrait of General Ne Win on bank notes that she sold as souvenirs and said mockingly this general was dismissed (sic) so the bank notes with his head were abolished instantly out of circulation and replaced by head of a new general.

What is dirt poor? That's in Burma owing to incompetence of the junta. Rough roads dated back to WW2 and Burmese living in tin-roof cottages. There were different dictators in Asia ~Lee Kwan Yew, Park Jong Hee, Chiang... who fostered modernization of their states with an iron fist. In contrast Burma's junta is an epic fail.


~~Still waters run deep. ~~from my MiPad using tapatalk
 
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Compersion

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Disagree to your drawing Myanmar a paralell to SL/LTTE. But let's not expand this here.

Speaking of "public opinion" I saw in person how Burmese disdained the military regime. A lady pointed at the portrait of General Ne Win on bank notes that she sold as souvenirs and said mockingly this general was dismissed (sic) so the bank notes with his head were abolished instantly out of circulation and replaced by head of a new general.

What is dirt poor? That's in Burma owing to incompetence of the junta. Rough roads dated back to WW2 and Burmese living in tin-roof cottages. There were different dictators in Asia ~Lee Kwan Yew, Park Jong Hee, Chiang... who fostered modernization of their states with an iron fist. In contrast Burma's junta is an epic fail.


~~Still waters run deep. ~~from my MiPad using tapatalk
Thanks for replying it is good to get your insight. The jist of what you say is repeatedly that it is the burmese internal problem and that they are wrong and in fact they are failures. you refer to the bank notes and how burmese were able to identify they needed change and made the changes (i would think that was good in some way - able to identify the symptom). i suppose you are also trying to say that the democratic experiment that myanmar is undertaking is wrong and democracy is good if done properly by way of dictatorship (more on that later).

i would have like you to apply the same logic and see what are the bank notes in pakistan and north korea. the bank notes of PRC also have islamic wordings on them. all these had and might have issues with PRC later. but the most ironic is the public opinion of PRC bank notes (both local and global). i am also impressed how PRC has been able to manage the dissent voices against Burma, Japan, Russia, USA, Pakistan, UK, EU, Philippines, Taiwan, Vietnam, and many more

a little expansion if you would allow me is that the minority PRC origin people that went to myanmar and returned to PRC do have trademarks similar to LTTE and Sri Lanka you might like it and you might not. i would like PRC to play a leading role in global affairs but it must be because of principle and for good and for peace and observance of sense and common sense and not because no one likes PRC. dropping a bomb well within PRC area and killing PRC people is not a good thing. there is a lot of states that are not liking the way PRC is behaving and they are nearby in the asia pacific region. would it be fair to say they are all epic failures.

The three dictators you refer to lets be honest diang xiao ping is among them. and if we use him in the group out of them three are chinese. you might even say all are chinese since koreans share a lot of history with chinese. but what you notice is Lee Kwan Yew and Chiang (you can spell the full name with pride) had sons who carried on their good work but in a democratic and open transparent rule of law system which led to a more stable and developed system that can observe different public opinion. these sons of these leaders are not dictators but leaders who will and have determined the future of their areas. after them is what is important that you need to study and learn. it is a good things diang xiao ping children were not more ambitious.

it is ironic that last name you use is Park Jong Hee who also has a daughter now in charge of her country elected by the people.

if that is thought you are trying to say and you are dissenting against the princelings and they ought to be like Lee Kwan Yew, Park Jong Hee, Chiang ... children that is smart of you and my opinion of you has increased in admiration. you are wanting a more open and democratic society in PRC built by leaders who you refer to be dictators who have a place in development of a country system and afterwards they step away to give to their children to transition into a more democratic society that elects leaders by universal suffrage. you cannot say it frankly but how you say it i guess i understand.

Xi Jiangping is he like the children of Lee Kwan Yew, Park Jong Hee, Chiang ... is this a transition phase you refer to that burma is trying but in your opinion is failing in a epic way. the leaders and diplomats at the top of the chain in PRC are pragmatic i would liken them more to be like smart guys with MBAs with a few of them with high IQs. these people know that majority of PRC people can have sudden high EQ mood swings.

i suppose india can offers it help and assistance to bumra to develop democratically and organically ... there is good traditions and support for what india has done by not interfering in others internal affairs to allow their democratic systems develop.
 
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t_co

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The problem with Burma is that the military takes a much too active role in civil affairs, and the military takes an ethnocentric pro-Burmese view. Why is it that when anyone wants to do a project in Burma, the generals have to get rich first? Why is it that all the generals are ethnic Burmese? Why does the military keep levying retroactive fees, taxes, and tariffs on non-Burmese regions that Burmese people do not have to pay?
 

Ray

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A close friendship that has turned sour

- Relations between China and Myanmar have worsened over the conflict in the Kokang region

Subir Bhaumik


Empty gesture?

It never looked like it could get this worse. The close ties that China has developed with the military junta in Myanmar since the late 1980s now appear to belong to the past. China was the only major nation that firmly supported Myanmar's military junta when it faced Western sanctions following the violent suppression of democratic movements and the long incarceration of Aung San Suu Kyi. It supplied large quantities of military hardware to the 'Tatmadaw' - the Burmese army- funded the junta's limited development programme, and invested heavily across the nation.

But Myanmar's new regime, led by President Thein Sein, appears determined to balance Myanmar's overdependence on its northern neighbour by engaging with the West, Japan , India as well as the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. The latest manifestation of this growing distance from China seems to have upset Beijing enormously.

In mid-March, a top Chinese official warned Myanmar that its military would take "resolute measures" if Myanmar failed to ensure the safety of the Kokang border area.The warning came after fighter jets were rushed to the border by Beijing when four Chinese farmers were killed by a bomb dropped by a Myanmar military aircraft in Yunnan. Fan Changlong, the vice-chairman of the Central Military Commission, told Min Aung Hlaing, the commander-in-chief of Myanmar's armed forces, that the Myanmarese military should "seriously control" its troops and prevent any recurrence of such an incident. In a direct communication to Myanmar's commander-in-chief, Changlong warned that "Otherwise, Chinese military will take resolute measures to protect the safety of Chinese people and their assets." He added that Myanmar should understand the seriousness of the incident, launch a thorough investigation, and also provide compensation to the families of victims.

His strongly-worded remarks came after State media reported that a bomb from a Myanmar aircraft exploded in a sugarcane field near the city of Lincang, killing four people and injuring nine others. Myanmarese officials expressed 'deep sorrow' over the incident after initially stating that their aircraft had not dropped a bomb. They blamed Kokang rebels for triggering the incident to spoil Myanmar-China relations. But that did not help. Chinese fighter jets were sent to "track, monitor, warn and chase away" Myanmar military planes that had flown close to the Chinese border, the air force spokesman, Shen Jinke, told Xinhua on the same day. In a stern diplomatic protest, Yang Houlan, China's envoy to Myanmar, called on the country's vice-president, Sai Mauk Kham, and Min Aung Hlaing to issue "solemn representations". On the same day, Liu Zhenmin, China's deputy foreign minister, summoned Thit Linn Ohn, Myanmar's ambassador to Beijing, to a meeting where he urged Myanmar to carry out a thorough investigation into the bombing.

China is clearly upset with the Myanmar army for unleashing a powerful offensive, including the use of airpower, against the Kokang ethnic rebels led by their pro-Chinese commander, Peng Jiasheng. The fighting prompted Myanmar to declare a state of emergency in Kokang in February. More than 30,000 people, mostly Chinese migrants but also many Kokangs, have fled to China's Yunnan province from Myanmar. Kokangs are closer to the Chinese in ethnicity, and speak a language that is not very different. On several previous occasions, fighting between Jiasheng's rebels and the Myanmar army has left Beijing with the burden of tackling tens of thousands of refugees fleeing the border. Chinese officials in Yunnan, who spoke to me on the condition of anonymity, said that they were 'extremely worried' over the fate of the recent migrants from China who had settled down in the border provinces of Myanmar. Their numbers have risen even in cities like Mandalay and Lashio, even Yangon. Many of them have already managed 'white cards' that are issued to those who would be considered for citizenship.

The Myanmar government's decision to scrap the white cards in February had put Chinese migrants in a tizzy. The frequent fighting between Myanmarese troops and ethnic rebels like the Kokangs worry China because the violence has the potential to trigger a huge exodus of Chinese migrants who number a few millions. Beijing is also sore with Myanmar for not taking any initiative to resume work on the $3.6 billion Myitsone hydel project. The Thein Sein government, faced with resistance to the project in the rebellious Kachin province, stopped working on it in 2010. The hydro-electric project was conceived, financed and partially built by the State-owned China Power Investment Corporation to take electricity across the border and help industrialize the Chinese province of Yunnan. At a height of 152 metres and with a potential capacity of 6,000 megawatts of electricity, the Myitsone project was to be the largest of seven dams at the headwaters of the Irrawaddy river. On its completion, it would have been the 15th largest dam in the world.

The veteran Myanmar-watcher, Bertil Lintner, says that the military junta began to change track in 2006 after a detailed review of the country's foreign relations. The review document, running into 380 pages in Burmese, talks about the 'dangers of over-dependence' on China and the need to 'open out to other countries' like those in the West, Japan, India, and member states of the Asean. The subsequent decisions of partial democratization, releasing Aung San Suu Kyi from prison, and the holding of elections and by-elections are all part of a larger game-plan to entice the West and other democratic nations that can act as a counterweight to China. Now that the United States of America and its allies have got a foothold, they might go easy on pushing the democratic agenda because they value their presence to counter China strategically. That would work to Myanmar's advantage.

When Kokang rebels attacked and killed nearly 80 Burmese troops in February, an anti-Chinese wave swept across Myanmar. The military-backed government did much to fuel the feeling. It projected the army as a bulwark against Chinese designs, a move that is likely to benefit Thein Sein and his allies against Aung San Suu Kyi's National League for Democracy in the parliamentary polls scheduled for the winter of 2015. For the first time since 1962, the army and politicians supporting the junta face the prospect of losing power. In 1990, the NLD did sweep the polls but the army did not honour the people's verdict and hung on to power. That would be difficult this time if elections are held. Several analysts feel that the fighting in the north could be used as an excuse to delay the parliamentary polls. The decision to announce a referendum to amend certain constitutional provisions has been welcomed. But that could also be used to delay the elections if there is a controversy on some of the contentious provisions like 59(f) that prohibits anyone married to a foreigner from contesting for presidency. The clause was clearly implemented to keep Aung San Suu Kyi out of power because her late husband and both her sons are British citizens.

India has an issue with Myanmar on the continued presence of northeastern rebel groups in the Sagaing province. After Bhutan and Bangladesh pushed these rebels out of their borders with firm action by the police and the military, Upper Burma remains the remaining safe haven for northeastern rebels. Myanmar has repeatedly dodged Indian pleas for military action against these groups, not the least because it has other pressing needs. The difference between Chinese and Indian positions is obvious - India wants action against the northeastern rebels; China does want any against the Kokangs or the Wa rebels.

India has already stepped up its diplomatic efforts to get the Myanmar army to neutralize the Sagaing bases. There are indications that the Indian government may not renew the ceasefire with the NSCN's Khaplang faction, which has served as a guardian for other rebel outfits like Ulfa, PLA of Manipur, and NDFB's Songbijit faction. Many in Delhi feel this is the right time to persuade the Myanmarese forces to hit the bases of the rebels from India's Northeast because Thein Sein would need the West, Japan, India and the Asean to balance off China's grip.
A close friendship that has turned sour
The problem with China is that the earlier cosy relationship that China had with Myanmar has gone sour.

China has shrewdly exploited Myanmar's isolation from the world and using the infamous cliche of theirs - not interfering with the internal affairs of another country - attempted to make a vassalage of Myanmar by propping up the military regime to reap a rich harvest in connecting China to the Bay of Bengal so that it lifeline sustaining supply of oil and also other commodities from Africa found a conduit beyond the vulnerable Straits of Malacca. Mynamar was the first pearl in the cunningly crafty and artful plan to extend its influence in the IOR and isolate India, called the 'String of Pearls'.

Inspite of the Chinese crumbs that came her way, Myanmar's development suffered immensely and frustration within the population grew. Myanmar realised that it has to spread its wings beyond the stranglehold of China.

This is what has upset the Chinese. They have always slyly kept the Kokangs, who are ethnically Chinese, on the boil and now it was necessary to hot up the game and put the Myanmarese junta in a spot.

The falling bomb is just an excuse.
 

Ray

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This new President of SL seems to be a very shrewd person.

Unlike Rajapakse, who was putting all his eggs in the Chinese basket as India was his bête noire, the new SL President has cottoned on to the idea of using global rivalry and SL's strategic importance and get all competing nations to invest in competition in SL.

He is aware that SL's independent position depends on not antagonising any nation that can create issues. Therefore, India is pulled in to counter balance China and western powers encouraged to. invest, so as to neutralise and contain Indian and Chinese interest.

Same is what Myanmar seems to embarked upon
 

brational

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China doesn't have to get angry but needs to make Myanmar military rulers understand abuse of force in resolving dispats with minority groups is not acceptable and that's no longer an "internal" affair.

Their negotiations ongoing probably lead to a federation where minorities have high-level autonomy in favor of those cross-border ethnicities friendly with China.

~Tapa talks: Orange is the new black.~
Excellent write up. What about Tibet?
 

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