China mocks India's democratic system

[MANT!]

Each nation develops at a different rate, comparing China to India is like comparing apples to oranges,as each nation must develop at their own pace due to far reaching circumstances such as resources, working age population, education, public works and the like.

India's behind China right now? OK so what?, India will develop at the pace it can at a rate that seems right to it's people unlike, for example, Nazi Germany where development of the economy was forced by a one party leadership primarily into weapons production and genocide. Perhaps India would rather spend it's development money on other priorities than the ones China has done.

I think picking on India is diverting the Chinese people from problems in their own society that are not being taken on by the government. Until recently, the Chinese had problems of their own with corruption in the CCP. So implying corruption exists only in a democratic society just seems a bit ..hypocritical
to me..
India can fire back with the example of Cuba as how a Communist system can be worse than a democratic one.. it's only fair..

 

[Sambha ka Boss]

I will simply say that China's economy was made by democratic countries. Communist
Chinese are not responsible for the economic miracle just enjoying it.

China's economic miracle was pumped by investment from Western countries and imports from Western country for cost savings.

 

[Sambha ka Boss]

Because Taiwan didn't get democratic until they became rich.
Basically, the system that made them rich was the same system in China today.

What about North Korea, why its not rich.

 

[smestarz]

India needs to be a Federal nation, each state of India is unique in its language, culture and other things, also yes there should be some modification in the system, the parliamentary democracy is not perfect, I feel what India lacks is its ability to vote for its leader, we vote for the representative MLA, MPs but what we do not have is the right to elect our own Prime Minister or President, and we should have the option to do so, It has become the need of the hour.

Chinese system works for them where there is heavy censorship on many things, unlike India. China is right that India has 20% poor, but Chinese have poverty too and that too very bad. The Chinese administraiton is known to destroy entire villages on their whim to build a town or modern city and many of these new Towns are ghost towns with few families staying in area built for few thousands.

China is good in marketing and shows the good side and progress that is the East, what about North and West? China every 10 years selects their leader (PRESIDENT) who is more or less like a dictator with full power, and even the courts are helpless against him. Not really something that India would like

 

[SafedSagar]

In recent years we have seen the fear of democracy is rising inside CCP and this is also a result of it. No doubt what the are saying is not wrong but again its not entirely correct too. Its funny how they are comparing India vs China as Democracy vs Communism . Basically all they want to convey is ''communism is the best and the only option and democracy will ruin us''. Behaving like typical communist fanboys. The comparison itself is BS. And going by their logic i have a better comparison i.e North Korea vs South Korea.

 

[DingDong]

India needs to be a Federal nation, each state of India is unique in its language, culture and other things, also yes there should be some modification in the system, the parliamentary democracy is not perfect, I feel what India lacks is its ability to vote for its leader, we vote for the representative MLA, MPs but what we do not have is the right to elect our own Prime Minister or President, and we should have the option to do so, It has become the need of the hour.

Chinese system works for them where there is heavy censorship on many things, unlike India. China is right that India has 20% poor, but Chinese have poverty too and that too very bad. The Chinese administraiton is known to destroy entire villages on their whim to build a town or modern city and many of these new Towns are ghost towns with few families staying in area built for few thousands.

China is good in marketing and shows the good side and progress that is the East, what about North and West? China every 10 years selects their leader (PRESIDENT) who is more or less like a dictator with full power, and even the courts are helpless against him. Not really something that India would like

India is already a Federal System. In my opinion a directly elected PM will be bad idea for a diverse and young country like India, a directly elected PM might become the whipping boy for Arap Spring kind of people, Parliamentary Democracy makes sure that the anarchists do not manage to find any central figure to latch on. Our system might be flawed but it is completely functional and common people of India have complete faith in it. Why change something which is not broken?

 

[pmaitra]

India is already a Federal System. In my opinion a directly elected PM will be bad idea for a diverse and young country like India, a directly elected PM might become the whipping boy for Arap Spring kind of people, Parliamentary Democracy makes sure that the anarchists do not manage to find any central figure to latch on. Our system might be flawed but it is completely functional and common people of India have complete faith in it. Why change something which is not broken?

This is exactly what I was thinking and thought of writing. Well said.

 

[no smoking]

What about North Korea, why its not rich.

What about Phillipine, why its not rich after 30 years of democracy?
What about Chili?
What about Argentina?
What about Mexico?
And what about India?

 

[no smoking]

I will simply say that China's economy was made by democratic countries. Communist
Chinese are not responsible for the economic miracle just enjoying it.

That is even laughable:
Democratic countries don't put their magic on the DEMOCRATIC India but a Communism country?

 

[sgarg]

That is even laughable:
Democratic countries don't put their magic on the DEMOCRATIC India but a Communism country?

Empire never loved India. Empire is not about democracy but about power. China was needed to defeat USSR. USSR is gone. Who is standing now?
China can keep on supplying goods to the West and West will keep on printing dollars. Hope this relationship lasts forever.

 

[Mad Indian]

What about Phillipine, why its not rich after 30 years of democracy?
What about Chili?
What about Argentina?
What about Mexico?
And what about India?

All are much more developed than the communist hell hole of NoKo or even the pre-market china of 1970s.

But I get it. You would prefer your bureaucrats to tell you how often you get to productively use your tools, .ie produce children. I totally get why it would be wrong for you to decide how often you get to reproduce. Yeah, I completely understand.

Indians who think that its better to live in a country which does not have even basic "animal right" of right to reproduce(forget Human rights) than to live India really do need such reproduction restrictive laws. It will be better for the globe as a whole as it will weed out the dumbnuts from the genepool

 

[Anikastha]

All are much more developed than the communist hell hole of NoKo or even the pre-market china of 1970s.

But I get it. You would prefer your bureaucrats to tell you how often you get to productively use your tools, .ie produce children. I totally get why it would be wrong for you to decide how often you get to reproduce. Yeah, I completely understand.

Indians who think that its better to live in a country which does not have even basic "animal right" of right to reproduce(forget Human rights) than to live India really do need such reproduction restrictive laws. It will be better for the globe as a whole as it will weed out the dumbnuts from the genepool

Let me put it in simple terms . India's economy crossed 2 trillions dollars already . And Chinese economy crossed 10 trillions recently . So what ? Like they developed, India will also be developed too. Why it won't ? Why anyone won't ? Unless they are failed states ?

For building infrastructure Communist can just throw their people out to some village at the border and start c the construction. But in India we need to request every single farmers , landlords just to buy .And later comes the environment clearance . Which should have less effect on nature even if it cost a lot. But it's not the case in china . They already destroyed their atmosphere with Carbon emissions and lead adulteration of their soils . Which makes at least 20% of their agricultural land to be poisoned with high lead content. WE DONT WANT TO BECOME LIKE CHINA EVER. But like ourselves in the past. We don't look at West to become a super power like them like China does . As we know we are superior civilisation on this planet with great for sight for humanity

 

[MANT!]

Exactly! When one has a command economy, an individual really has almost zero say in the matter of how development happens or what gets destroyed in the name of "progress". One thing I'm sure of, India will tread it's own unique path to development. India will do what's right for her citizens as well as the economy and when she takes her rightful place as a permanent member of the Security Council, she will tread a different path than the West or Communist nations.. I (even as a proud American) will welcome that day.

 

[pmaitra]

All are much more developed than the communist hell hole of NoKo or even the pre-market china of 1970s.

But I get it. You would prefer your bureaucrats to tell you how often you get to productively use your tools, .ie produce children. I totally get why it would be wrong for you to decide how often you get to reproduce. Yeah, I completely understand.

Indians who think that its better to live in a country which does not have even basic "animal right" of right to reproduce(forget Human rights) than to live India really do need such reproduction restrictive laws. It will be better for the globe as a whole as it will weed out the dumbnuts from the genepool

I have three things to tell you:​

1. You are attacking a position that @no smoking does not hold.
2. You know it is a fallacy.
3. You know what this fallacy is called.
   
   
   Here is a reminder:
   

   I know it is a fallacy. I want to know what name you use for that fallacy. I guess my question is, if in a debate, if the opponent is attacking the positions you dont hold instead of attacking your positions, it is called "strawman fallacy". I know you know it but I am giving an example as to make you get my question.
   
   So what is this fallacy called as?

   Now, here is one more thing I want to tell you:
   
   
4. Why are so called democratic countries such as Chile, Argentina, Mexico, and India, not even remotely as developed as PRC?
   
   

   What about Phillipine, why its not rich after 30 years of democracy?
   What about Chili?
   What about Argentina?
   What about Mexico?
   And what about India?

   And, here is the fifth and final thing I want to tell you:
   
   
5. Is it in India's interest to ignore the fact that PRC is way more developed than India in almost every respect, and does it benefit India if India (and Indians) instead of trying to catch up with PRC, constantly remind itself about North Korea and feel a fake sense of contentment and complacency?

So, before you hit the "reply" button, pause, re-read all the five points, think about them, and respond.

 

[CrYsIs]

All are much more developed than the communist hell hole of NoKo or even the pre-market china of 1970s.

But I get it. You would prefer your bureaucrats to tell you how often you get to productively use your tools, .ie produce children. I totally get why it would be wrong for you to decide how often you get to reproduce. Yeah, I completely understand.

Indians who think that its better to live in a country which does not have even basic "animal right" of right to reproduce(forget Human rights) than to live India really do need such reproduction restrictive laws. It will be better for the globe as a whole as it will weed out the dumbnuts from the genepool

If given two options

option 1 : Absolute freedom but no food on the plate,very little education,employment opportunity and no healthcare

Option 2 : No freedom to criticize the government but atleast 3 square meals a day,best of education,health and employment opportunities

which one will you choose ?

 

[Mad Indian]

I have three things to tell you:​

1. You are attacking a position that @no smoking does not hold.
2. You know it is a fallacy.
3. You know what this fallacy is called.
   
   
   Here is a reminder:
   
   
   Now, here is one more thing I want to tell you:
   
   
4. Why are so called democratic countries such as Chile, Argentina, Mexico, and India, not even remotely as developed as PRC?
   
   
   
   And, here is the fifth and final thing I want to tell you:
   
   
5. Is it in India's interest to ignore the fact that PRC is way more developed than India in almost every respect, and does it benefit India if India (and Indians) instead of trying to catch up with PRC, constantly remind itself about North Korea and feel a fake sense of contentment and complacency?

So, before you hit the "reply" button, pause, re-read all the five points, think about them, and respond.

No its not strawman at all. It is a low brow attack yes, but it is abosolutely related to the issue in discussion nonetheless.

Democracy is the govt where the govt is run on the wishes of the people. The ordinary people have a say on what the law should be. It is not so for a Dictatorship like China. The only thing which kept compulsory family planning/one child-two child debacles from India was democracy and the only reason Chinese people have one child policy is because of their dictatorship. In a democracy like India, no one can enforce their whims and fancies without the approval of the people. It is not so in China.

Anyway, India did experience two years of dictatorship from 1975-1977. You know what happened during that time under Sanjay Gandhi dont you- I mean forced sterilisation and all?

Do you know that India was the first country to adopt family planning programs? The only reason socialist dumb bots of India could not enforce their two child nonsense or whatever is because of Democracy of India.

Anyway, its funny how Chinese have to agree to not produce children when their govt(their bureaucrats) thinks it is ok not to produce them and also agree to produce children when their govt(their bureaucrats) thinks it is ok to produce them . Apparantly, this sort of personal choices are better decided by some bureaucrats for them. How lucky they are

 

[Mad Indian]

If given two options

option 1 : Absolute freedom but no food on the plate,very little education,employment opportunity and no healthcare

Option 2 : No freedom to criticize the government but atleast 3 square meals a day,best of education,health and employment opportunities

which one will you choose ?

Does your absolute freedom involve economic freedom?

Edit: You are taking too long to answer so i will answer your question nonetheless- yes, i will take freedom over stop gap measures .

Economic development is directly linked to how free the economy is . Even take your China, they had a disastrous economic policy from 1949-1979. They have killed more people with their cultural revolution than any other country in the world with any sort of genocide programs.

It all changed only because of "lucky geopolitical situations" - which include their split with Soviet union and the subsequent tacit alliance with the US. Only then did the realise that their economic policies were taking them nowhere and decided to impletment free market reforms in 1979. Only after that did China's economy started working. Before that, their economic condition was as bad as that of India. Also, both India and China were socialist countries till 1979. Its not like India had a different economic situation till then. Screw China, even P o rkis had a better economy than India till 1991. The average percapita of the P*rkis in 1991 was 1.5 times that of the Indians.


As, luck would have it, SU broke down in 1991(or because their crappy system could no longer work). Only then did India open up the economy. The difference between India and china is only 12-14 years, and that is the difference in the time when both economies opened up. It has nothing to do with Democracy or Dictatorship. China could have easily had a socialist leader who dint open Chinese economy in 1979. What would have happened then? Another great leap forward perhaps? But Indian democracy will never allow such BS because here the politicians are answerable to the population.

Hell, even now, Chinese economic freedom index is higher than that of India by leaps and bounds.

So the premise of your question itself is wrong.

Freedom almost always and inevitably leads to prosperity.

So yeah, I will choose the poorer free country rather than the stop gap measure country with no freedom but 3 meals a day.

BTW, who told you that India is that bad compared to China? Chinese per capita GDP is only twice that of India's

@pmaitra I think I answered your fifth point. Its ludacris to think that Democracy is a bad thing and that we could have been richer under a Dictatorship. For one, we could have easily had a communist govt like that of the WB running the show for all of India under such dictatorship. Considering how beautifully Communists of WB have changed their state from one of the richest in the country at the time of Independance to one of the poorest right now, I can see how wonderful that would have turned out

 

[Mad Indian]

GDP per capita, PPP (current international $) | Data | Table

China's percapita GDP is 11900$, India's percapita GDP is 5500$. Its not that big of a difference. It is a difference of 8-10% growth for 8-10 years, that is the GDP doubling time.

 

[pmaitra]

No its not strawman at all. It is a low brow attack yes, but it is abosolutely related to the issue in discussion nonetheless.

Of course it is a strawman.

Related to the discussion? Yes.
Related to the position held by @no smoking? No.

So, you have no answer as to why democratic countries such as Chile, Argentina, Mexico, and India, are not even remotely as developed as PRC. It is evident you have no answer, nor will you have anytime in the foreseeable future.

Democracy is the govt where the govt is run on the wishes of the people. The ordinary people have a say on what the law should be. It is not so for a Dictatorship like China. The only thing which kept compulsory family planning/one child-two child debacles from India was democracy and the only reason Chinese people have one child policy is because of their dictatorship. In a democracy like India, no one can enforce their whims and fancies without the approval of the people. It is not so in China.

Anyway, India did experience two years of dictatorship from 1975-1977. You know what happened during that time under Sanjay Gandhi dont you- I mean forced sterilisation and all?

Yeah, I knew that.

Do you know that India was the first country to adopt family planning programs?

Yes, I know. Now that you told me.

The only reason socialist dumb bots of India could not enforce their two child nonsense or whatever is because of Democracy of India.

But socialist dumb bots have managed to make laws that "take from Peter and give to Paul" in America. If people are not enlightened enough, which plebs can never be expected to be, it results in policies and laws that are disastrous in the long term. Any nation (not city state), will almost always have a large supply of plebs.

"I know no safe depositary of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." — Thomas Jefferson to William C. Jarvis, 1820.​

Anyway, its funny how Chinese have to agree to not produce children when their govt(their bureaucrats) thinks it is ok not to produce them and also agree to produce children when their govt(their bureaucrats) thinks it is ok to produce them . Apparantly, this sort of personal choices are better decided by some bureaucrats for them. How lucky they are

It is not funny. It makes complete sense. Rather have fewer children with quality upbringing than breed like maggots. Lenin was right - what will you do with the right to breed like vermin if you cannot feed them? I say three cheers to the Communist Party of China. (No, I am not confusing USSR with PRC. Just letting you know before you go off with yet another obtuse narrative.)

"No amount of political freedom will satisfy the hungry masses." — Vladimir Lenin.​

If given two options

option 1 : Absolute freedom but no food on the plate,very little education,employment opportunity and no healthcare

Option 2 : No freedom to criticize the government but atleast 3 square meals a day,best of education,health and employment opportunities

which one will you choose ?

And, I repeat:

"No amount of political freedom will satisfy the hungry masses." — Vladimir Lenin.​

 

[pmaitra]

@pmaitra I think I answered your fifth point. Its ludacris to think that Democracy is a bad thing and that we could have been richer under a Dictatorship. For one, we could have easily had a communist govt like that of the WB running the show for all of India under such dictatorship. Considering how beautifully Communists of WB have changed their state from one of the richest in the country at the time of Independance to one of the poorest right now, I can see how wonderful that would have turned out

No, you have not answered my fifth point. You just erected another strawman. Instead of North Korea, your brought in WB.

WB and PRC have more differences than similarities. WB has suffered because the government had to rely on votes to continue to get elected, and thus could not take action against militant trade unionism, out of fear of losing votes. When the government finally took an unpopular step (TATA Nano), it lost the elections. This is a wonderful quality of democracy. Blame democracy, not communism.

Now, try to answer my question.