82 Million Chinese Survive on Less Than $1 a Day, Says an Official

badguy2000

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in a word,even in remotest poor area like Gannan prefecture,which per capita GDP is only 30% of chinese average one, villagers' main income is not agri income,but salary of 'sweatshop' jobs or other jobs. only when all members of one villager family are disable and are even not fit for unskilled sweatshop jobs, might '1 dollar/1day' poverty be possible.
 
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amoy

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in a word,even in remotest poor area like Gannan prefecture,which per capita GDP is only 30% of chinese average one, villagers' main income is not agri income,but salary of 'sweatshop' jobs or other jobs. only when all members of one villager family are disable and are even not for unskilled sweatshop jobs, might '1 dollar/1day' poverty be possible.
alright, u can't call "Gannan" real inland and remote. Gannan if my memory serves correctly is rich in rare earth. Mountainous? Yes, but ecologically sustainable with lots of plants.

Check those really barren and infertile plateau I mentioned Yunnan and Guizhou, land-locked with poor infrastructures, and minority peoples, or the drought smitten northwest Gansu and Shaanxi, gobi and deserts.

Yes youth may flood to urban or devloped areas for jobs like Indians going to the Gulf region. But still many would rather stay like those uncompetitive in the labor force. And not everyone is proficient enough for "sweatshop" jobs.

But of course there're limits for those socialist "Poverty Reduction Projects", which actually means relatively developed areas have to shoulder extra costs/taxes for the underdeveloped.
 
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badguy2000

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alright, u can't call "Gannan" real inland and remote. Gannan if my memory serves correctly is rich in rare earth. Mountainous? Yes, but ecologically sustainable with lots of plants.

Check those really barren and infertile plateau I mentioned Yunnan and Guizhou, land-locked with poor infrastructures, and minority peoples, or the drought smitten northwest Gansu and Shaanxi, gobi and deserts.

Yes youth may flood to urban or devloped areas for jobs like Indians going to the Gulf region. But still many would rather stay like those uncompetitive in the labor force. And not everyone is proficient enough for "sweatshop" jobs.

But of course there're limits for those socialist "Poverty Reduction Projects", which actually means relatively developed areas have to shoulder extra costs/taxes for the underdeveloped.
1.rich resource can not naturally make one ares rich ,because Africa has lots of resource too.

it is usually the poor infrastructure and the weak industry that make one are poor and undeveloped.

2.in the past decades, the nation-wide infrastructure upgrade has set up lots of expressways ,railway ans airport in poor areas such as Gannan,Gansu Guizhou and Yunnan.

for example, there was 0-inch expressway in Gannan,but now almost all counties here are connected by expressway net and the prefecture as large as Danmark has more expressway than the whole india sub-continent.

3.as a result, in Ganan , many "sweatshop" are set up or moved from coastal China, and almost all rural youth here give up farming or and work as employees in "sweatshop"...
Thus, the whole society rapidly turn "industrialzied society" from "agri-society".

4. the same case is also happening to Yunnan.Gansu ans Guihou too.


5. I am not sure where you live....but I am sure that you underestimate the growth in Yunnan ,GUizhou and Gansu....
you still don't realized that the past decade, industrialization has changed the remotest counties in CHina such as GUizhou, and changed it forever.

the old impression that "west Chinese is still eating grass due to poverty" is quite outdated.
 
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Ray

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it seems that you still don't understand how 'sweatshop' changes china. most youth in remote area like Qinglong moutainous area have left their home villages as sweatshop workers or other low~income jobs. they can earn 400~500UsD(2000-3000Rmb) at least and remit a lot of their salary to their families(usually the old and the kids) in home villages. so,as long as one family member can find a sweatshop job outside the poor mountain area, the family can get out of '1 dollar/1day' poverty. case today is that jobs of 'sweatshop' is very easy to get,even in inland china,because china now is quite short of blue~collar labour seriously.
Between 50 and 55 per cent of the population resides in rural areas, where about two-thirds of the population is engaged in farming, forestry, animal husbandry and fishing. About 40 per cent of total employment in China is in rural areas. The poorest rural households tend to derive a large share of their income from agricultural activities, which often show low levels of productivity and net profits.

The most vulnerable groups in rural parts of China are women, children and the elderly, as well as ethnic minorities who live in remote mountainous areas.

The main causes and characteristics of rural poverty vary in the different provinces and autonomous regions. In general, they include:

Increasingly frequent natural calamities, especially floods and droughts, caused by extreme weather conditions that are associated with climate change
Remote locations with poor community infrastructure and services, such as paved roads, markets and safe drinking water
Depleted natural resources and decreasing farm sizes
Lack of skills and capacity, and a disproportionate incidence of illiteracy and poor skills among women
Limited access to inputs, financial services, markets and value chains
Reliance on traditional farming techniques.

Source: IFAD
 

Ray

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Poverty is observable all over the world. As a developing country China has a huge population under the poverty-line, which was 80 million and 592 poverty-stricken counties in 1993. An anti-poverty program (called `Eight-Seven Program' which means that China would eliminate poverty of about 80 million people in seven years by the end of 20 th century) launched in 1993 has achieved a great success in poverty alleviation. Up to 2000 population under the poverty-line has declined to 32 million, of which 17 million are from poverty-stricken counties and 15 million from non-poverty-stricken counties. West China is a major poverty area where the incidence of poverty is higher than other part of china, the poor population increased 0.59 million in 2000, and the percent of population in western to the total population under the poverty-line is about 62%. West China is therefore a key area for China to fight poverty.

1.1 Poverty areas almost in China mountain regions

Poverty incidence closely associates to mountain in China. Retrospect to the middle period of 1980's, all of the 18 patch-poverty areas that were determined by the Chinese central government are in mountain areas. The range of eight-seven antipoverty national strategy also covers 592 counties. Among of the poverty-stricken counties, 18% is in upland, 66% in mountain and 14% in plain. Therefore, the poverty counties are scattered in the mountain and upland areas with fragile environment and inconvenience transportation system. After ten years antipoverty strategy, there still exist more than 32 million people living under the poverty line in 2000. About 62% of the total poor people are in western region, 28% in central region and 10% in eastern region.

This distribution of the poorest is closely related the distribution of mountain. About 64.8% of the total mountain and 56.2% of the hilly land are in western region. 72.8% of the western region is covered by the mountain and hilly land. The mountainous provinces are in southwest China, which are Sichuan, Yunnn, Guizhou and Chongqing Municipality. The mountain areas in Sichuan, Yunan and Guizhou are 72%, 80.3% and 80.8% respectively. Added the hilly land in each province, the mountain areas are beyond to 95% of the total areas in Yunan and Guizhou, and 90% in Sichuan (including Chongqing Municipality). Meanwhile, southwest part is the poorest region with high poverty incidence and a lot of poor counties. According to the eight-seven anti-poverty strategy, the national poverty counties are 164 in this region, 19,630,000 people living in the poverty counties and 2,760,000 people non-poverty counties, which account to 27.7%, 33.5% and 34.22% of the total national population respectively. Generally, Chinese rural poverty is in western region and mountain area. The main stream of antipoverty is in western and mountain.

1.2 Poverty Areas Overlap with Sensitive Eco-zone

China sensitive eco-zones are quite different in north and south. Northern sensitive eco-zone starts from Baicheng in western Jilin province, pass through south xilinguolei county, wulanchabu county, Yikezhao county of Inner Mongolia, northwest Shanxi Province, Northwest Shaanxi Province and ends in southeast Ningxia. The southern sensitive eco-zone consists of two parts: one is the semi-tropical area with the basic land compound of granite and red rocky in coastal areas of southeastern and the upland in south part of Yangtze River; the other is marginal zone of the southwest plateau and Hengdan Mountain. The south sensitive eco-zones are almost in the transition terrain between the first terrain to the second and the karst topography area in southwest China.

The counties in the eco-zone are usually poor. Among 76% counties in these sensitive eco-zone are below the poverty line, which takes to 73% of the total counties in the provinces that are in the sensitive eco-zone. From the land dropped in the sensitive eco-zone, the poverty counties take to 43% of the land that account for 47% of the total land of the provinces in the sensitive eco-zone. Related to arable land, 68% in the poverty counties are in the range of the sensitive eco-zone that represent for 74% of the total arable land of these provinces in the sensitive eco-zone. From the view of population, about 74% of the total population are in the poor condition that represent for 81% of the total poor population in these provinces in range of the sensitive eco-zone.

2. The General Poverty Characters

2.1 Absolute Poverty

Mountain poor in China mostly is in the absolute stage. The consumption and income in different topography are quite different. The income of mountain is much lower than the plain's and the hilly-land's. Here is an example. According to fixed household survey done by the national statistic bureau in 2000, there is quite different in the rural economic development indicators among mountain, plain and hilly-land (see figure 1): the gross income and year net income in mountain are much lower than upland and plain, and the gross payout almost the same. The reason for income gap is that labor only employed in the primary especially agriculture sector: 92% of the labor force works in their living areas in the fixed inspective households, and about 88.2% labor engage in farming activities and 85.6% specific in crop planting.

The living condition for mountain poor is too bad for making a living. According to the statistic, the poorest people with very bad living condition are about 4 million, which scatter in 6-provinces that include Guangxi, Guizhou, Yunnan, Tibet, Qinghai and Xinjiang.
This is from the data ex my computer.

IIRC it is from a Forestry Conf in Canada.

I am sure with the Poverty Eradication Programmes, the situation is much better.
 

badguy2000

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Between 50 and 55 per cent of the population resides in rural areas, where about two-thirds of the population is engaged in farming, forestry, animal husbandry and fishing. About 40 per cent of total employment in China is in rural areas. The poorest rural households tend to derive a large share of their income from agricultural activities, which often show low levels of productivity and net profits.

The most vulnerable groups in rural parts of China are women, children and the elderly, as well as ethnic minorities who live in remote mountainous areas.

The main causes and characteristics of rural poverty vary in the different provinces and autonomous regions. In general, they include:

Increasingly frequent natural calamities, especially floods and droughts, caused by extreme weather conditions that are associated with climate change
Remote locations with poor community infrastructure and services, such as paved roads, markets and safe drinking water
Depleted natural resources and decreasing farm sizes
Lack of skills and capacity, and a disproportionate incidence of illiteracy and poor skills among women
Limited access to inputs, financial services, markets and value chains
Reliance on traditional farming techniques.

Source: IFAD
well,
I have lots of relatives in rural area in Gannan prefecture.....
ten years ago, youth of them went to Guangdong and worked for sweatshops; the guys at the age of 35+ had to live on farming ,because sweatshops in Guangdong rejected labour at age of 35+.

now, almost all of them worked in "sweatshop" around home villages while the shortage of labours also is on here. now "sweatshop"s are not in the position to rejects old unskilled labours any more.

your data might be truth 10 years ago...or even 5 years ago...but now case is quite different...

ten years ago, Gannan prefecture,as well as most of inland CHinese areas, was still a unindustrialized society and most of its labour lived on agricutlure.


but now, most of labour here lived on non-agri sector and it is a industrialzied society as a whole.


the population of my home county is about 0.8M.
I still remember that when I was a mi-school student 20 years ago, only 50K of 0.8M population lived in the countytown.


But now,about 0.3-0.4 M of the 0.8M population lived in the countytown.
plus other towns, maybe 0.5 of the 0.8M population lived in towns in the county.

almost all younth have moved or is moving to urban areas. and only the old are left in villages.


I am sure that in 2 decade many village will vanish after the old die.
 
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Dhairya Yadav

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Actually not surprised . China has quite high income inequality .They need to sort this out if they really want the tag of superpower.
 

s002wjh

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why ppl still arguing over this, yes there are alot poor ppl in china, they only start become capitalist for 20ish years, so of course there gonna be 10-30% still living in poverty. but no one can argue CCP did a good job by lefting 100s millions chinese out of poverty. in the 60-70s china was poorer than india, but look at them now. 1/3 of population in india still live in poverty, would you agree india should get its act 1st before point other ppl's shortcoming.
 

badguy2000

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why ppl still arguing over this, yes there are alot poor ppl in china, they only start become capitalist for 20ish years, so of course there gonna be 10-30% still living in poverty. but no one can argue CCP did a good job by lefting 100s millions chinese out of poverty. in the 60-70s china was poorer than india, but look at them now. 1/3 of population in india still live in poverty, would you agree india should get its act 1st before point other ppl's shortcoming.
well,in china today, 5 dollar one day is still "poverty" ,becsuse a job which earn less than 350USD(2000RMB) every month is extreme low income one .
 

Ray

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why ppl still arguing over this, yes there are alot poor ppl in china, they only start become capitalist for 20ish years, so of course there gonna be 10-30% still living in poverty. but no one can argue CCP did a good job by lefting 100s millions chinese out of poverty. in the 60-70s china was poorer than india, but look at them now. 1/3 of population in india still live in poverty, would you agree india should get its act 1st before point other ppl's shortcoming.
There is no need to get defensive.

And there is no need to get embarrassed with the fact that there is poverty in China.

Unlettered jingoism may nudge one to put blinkers on one's eyes, but then not accepting reality is living in a Fool's Paradise and is more dangerous.

Free people can comment on anything and everything and that is their right, no matter what is their social or economic status.

There is no harm in commenting on China and its poverty, for after all, there is much Chinese hype that China is bankrolling the world and is amongst the richest. Thus, one wonders how is there poverty?

And China also claims that it still is a 'developing' country. Isn't poverty there in all developing countries?
 

badguy2000

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There is no need to get defensive.

And there is no need to get embarrassed with the fact that there is poverty in China.

Unlettered jingoism may nudge one to put blinkers on one's eyes, but then not accepting reality is living in a Fool's Paradise and is more dangerous.

Free people can comment on anything and everything and that is their right, no matter what is their social or economic status.

There is no harm in commenting on China and its poverty, for after all, there is much Chinese hype that China is bankrolling the world and is amongst the richest. Thus, one wonders how is there poverty?

And China also claims that it still is a 'developing' country. Isn't poverty there in all developing countries?
poverty is of course a still serious in china. those low income guys who earn only 300-500USD(2000 ~3000RMB) can never afford house in citiee
by themseves and have to
 

Ray

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poverty is of course a still serious in china. those low income guys who earn only 300-500USD(2000 ~3000RMB) can never afford house in citiee
by themseves and have to
True, but what requires to be congratulated is the Poverty Alleviation Schemes that have been initiated.

It will take time, but it will do much to reduce the sufferings of those who are still in poverty and poverty is not because people are lazy, but because of the circumstances and the environment in which they find themselves i.e. in mountainous areas where the land is not available or fertile etc.
 

badguy2000

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True, but what requires to be congratulated is the Poverty Alleviation Schemes that have been initiated.

It will take time, but it will do much to reduce the sufferings of those who are still in poverty and poverty is not because people are lazy, but because of the circumstances and the environment in which they find themselves i.e. in mountainous areas where the land is not available or fertile etc.
relocation is a more feazible way to heal poverty in moutianious areas ....the youth of those moutainous area will move to richer areas for fortune .those youth will remite their salary back to their families in home villages ,but they will not return their home villages any more.


after the old left in those moutainous areas villages die out, those villages will vanish and the abosolute poverty will vanish too.
 

Ray

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relocation is a more feazible way to heal poverty in moutianious areas ....the youth of those moutainous area will move to richer areas for fortune .those youth will remite their salary back to their families in home villages ,but they will not return their home villages any more.


after the old left in those moutainous areas villages die out, those villages will vanish and the abosolute poverty will vanish too.
You are looking at the economic issue alone.

Do you realise that denuding the population in the remote areas and bringing them to urban areas will have immense pressure on the social system and city management leading to disturbances?

And who will look after the mountainous area?
 

badguy2000

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You are looking at the economic issue alone.

Do you realise that denuding the population in the remote areas and bringing them to urban areas will have immense pressure on the social system and city management leading to disturbances?

And who will look after the mountainous area?
well, the ulti-settlement- destination of most youth from lonly villages is not big cities such as Beijing ,Shanghai,but mid-size city such as Ganzhou,or even small countytowns..


in fact, most youth from lonely villages ,who earn only 350-800USD(2000-5000RMB) every month as low-income class in urban area, can not afford houses in big cities at all,while houses there cost usually cost 1200USD(10000RMB)/per square meters+( Beijing,shanghai costs 5000USD(30000RMB)/per square meter+).

what they can afford is usually houses in mid-size or small cities,where house price is uausally less than 800USD(5000RMB)/square meter.

the usual route map of youth from lonely viilages is such:
1. they usually leave their home village after graduating from mid-school at their age of 18 or so and work in cities as sweatshop workers or other low-income employees.
2. after working in cities and havig saved some money,say 10-30K USD(60-200KRMB),they would usually buy one apartment in small cities or towns around their home village with mortage loans and marry.
3.after marrying,the youth have to make choice: go on working as sweatshop workers in cities and leave their kids in hometown or do some small business such as opening one grocery around home towns....
 
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Ray

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@badguy,

You are looking at from the viewpoint of the individual.

Think from the standpoint of the authorities.

The problems of urbanisation:


Easier said than done.

Remember the chaos the migrant workers created in a city of China?

Clashes highlight the plight of migrant workers in China

A huge police presence in Zengcheng, a satellite town of the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou, has temporarily suppressed any further unrest over the past days, following angry protests by thousands of rural migrant workers last weekend.

On Monday and Tuesday, 2,000 riot police armed with shields, batons and shotguns paraded in a one-kilometre column through the streets of Xintang district, in a deliberate attempt to intimidate workers. Heavily-armed police set up checkpoints at major road intersections and a curfew was imposed throughout the town.

The protests were triggered last Friday when local government security personnel pushed a pregnant woman to the ground while removing small vendors from the front of a supermarket. Such are the social tensions in Zengcheng that the incident triggered rumours that the woman and her husband had been killed, igniting anger among migrant workers who face systematic abuse by police. Protesters clashed with riot police, burnt government buildings and smashed police cars.

A local shop owner told Agence France Presse on Wednesday: "It was very scary—the scariest thing I have encountered since I was born." He reported that thousands of rioters had clashed with police. "Together they flipped police cars and set them on fire. A few hundred policemen then came. They started beating people indiscriminately with metal batons."

Just days before the unrest in Zengcheng, similar protests erupted among migrant workers over unpaid wages in the city of Chaozhou, also in Guangdong province.

Yesterday, the Guangzhou police bureau announced that a man had been arrested for spreading the rumour online that the Zengcheng vendor had died. Officially, 25 protesters have been arrested. However, according to online eyewitness accounts, 1,000 people have been detained, out of up to 10,000 who took part in the Zengcheng protests.

To justify the police repression and stoke up ethnic divisions, attempts are being made to demonise "separatists" from Tibet and Xinjiang as the "black hand" behind the protests. The Hong Kong-based Ming Pao reported that local authorities handed out steel pipes and helmets to male residents and called on them to organise their "self-defence".

This incitement to ethnic violence against rural migrants is a deliberate attempt to divert attention from the real issues behind protests, which stem from China's deepening social polarisation, endemic official corruption and police-state repression.

A State Council Development Research Centre report issued on Tuesday acknowledged that the country's 150 million rural migrant workers "are marginalised in the cities, treated as mere cheap labour, not absorbed by cities but even neglected, discriminated against and harmed." It warned policy-makers: "If mishandled, this situation will create a major destabilising threat."

Beijing's answer is police repression. The Hong Kong-based Oriental Daily reported on Tuesday that central government officials held emergency meetings over the protests, "considered the situation as serious, and ordered the local authorities to carry out harsh repression." The argument presented, according to the newspaper, was "kill one to scare one hundred." The report paraphrased Zhang Jun, a deputy head of the Supreme Peoples Court, as saying "criminal elements extremely hostile to the state and society must be punished with the death penalty, with absolutely no mercy."

The Oriental Daily noted that migrant workers in Zengcheng had suppressed their anger in the face of a massive police presence, but were "preparing economic revenge in a second wave of struggle." It reported that workers were calling via the Internet for a month-long strike, "to economically bring down the 'Capital of Jeans' "¦ in order to take revenge against the local law enforcement personnel and the wealthy layer's prolonged exploitation of migrant workers."

Xintang district is dubbed the "Jeans Capital". Its 400,000-500,000 migrant workers form the bulk of a workforce that produces more than 200 million pairs of jeans or about one sixth of the total global production. The fear in Chinese ruling circles is that any further protests by migrant workers in Zengcheng will spread throughout the entire Pearl River Delta region—the heartland of China's manufacturing export industries.
A jeans factory worker from Sichuan told the Wall Street Journal that the protests "could start again—people are still very angry. The government doesn't care our problems." Another worker explained: "We don't want trouble with the police." He went on to complain about the impact of rising food prices and the problem of unpaid wages.

The average monthly wage for garment workers is about 2,000 yuan ($US309). The income of farmers in Sichuan is less than half that amount. However, migrant workers face sweatshop conditions and long hours. Most work at least 10 hours a day, seven days a week, and wages are not always paid on time.

On top of these hardships, they are treated as second-class citizens with no residential rights or access to basic services in the cities where they work. They face constant discrimination by local authorities and police harassment. Moreover, the local government security squads often charge fees and demand bribes over various minor offences

A female worker from Sichuan told the South China Morning Post that she had become "desensitised" to police brutality, as it happened every day. "When I first came, I was very scared to see migrant workers being beaten up and left half dead, but now I'm used to it."

Her work involved cutting loose threads off completed jeans. She earned 0.15 yuan per pair and was lucky to finish 300 pairs, working from 6 a.m. to the midnight. "That would earn me about 30 yuan a day," she said, "but foreign orders have been infrequent since April." At off-peak times, she earned just 450 yuan a month and rent took more than half her wage.

Another man from Hubei told the Hong Kong-based newspaper that local government security personnel showed no patience with outsiders: "Migrant workers and peasants are ignorant about urban rules and regulations, but there is really no need to punish people by beating them up when they break a rule or two ... Those security people are ruthless and have been barbaric for a very long time."

Amid deepening global economic turmoil, especially in China's largest export markets in Europe and the US, migrant workers will inevitably be squeezed even harder.

The US thinktank Stratfor warned: "Though spreading protests are not necessarily expected in Sichuan [the home province of the protesting migrants], economic troubles and lack of profit in many small- and medium-sized Chinese factories—which in turn leads to unpaid wages—and the resulting problems for migrant labourers, will probably cause more issues in Guangdong in the near future."

Other commentators voiced concern about the potential for social unrest across China. The Financial Times warned on Wednesday that social tensions were now so sharp that providing wage rises, as happened following the strikes last year initiated by Honda workers, would no longer work. "Buying off strikers is child's play, however, compared with dealing with ever larger numbers of people who believe Chinese society to be manifestly unjust," the newspaper wrote.

These comments underscore the fear in international financial circles that uncoordinated protests could evolve into a broader political movement of the working class against not only the Chinse Communist Party regime, but also the capitalist foundations on which it rests.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2011/06/chin-j17.html
Didn't want to bring this out, but one must see the situation holistically.

While the individual may become richer through migration, but think of the chaos that the authorities have to handle and then be blamed.

And the world will look at it with immense Schadenfreude.

I think it is called in Mandarin 欢乐
Huānlè
 
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amoy

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to view this holistically - it's a lot easier to migrate within the same country and pursue opportunities for both individuals and the authority than abroad. in the Gulf region alone there're reportedly 6,000,000 Indians working as "white collar" or "blue". there seems no chaos and all is well making the largest recepient of overseas remittance that's both supporting upkeeps at home and channeling hard currency back to India.

of course only a dynamic economy is able to provide enough and quality employment domestically - just imagine what if the 6 million swarm India back all of a sudden then"¦

Sent from my 5910 using Tapatalk 2
 

badguy2000

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to view this holistically - it's a lot easier to migrate within the same country and pursue opportunities for both individuals and the authority than abroad. in the Gulf region alone there're reportedly 6,000,000 Indians working as "white collar" or "blue". there seems no chaos and all is well making the largest recepient of overseas remittance that's both supporting upkeeps at home and channeling hard currency back to India.

of course only a dynamic economy is able to provide enough and quality employment domestically - just imagine what if the 6 million swarm India back all of a sudden then"¦

Sent from my 5910 using Tapatalk 2
well, if it were not 6M indians ,but 120M indians that work in gulf regions , their remittance back to india were 20 times more than now it is ,what would india now be like????


that is just what happened to inland CHina .....200M inland CHinese villagers work in coastal CHina and remit most of their salary back to their families in home villages.
 

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So the moral of the story is, in countries beyond population of 100 million , it is difficult to achieve economic parity among citizens even if the national avg. per-capita is good enough. Is it?

And closer you get the last million of poor the tougher it gets to eradicate poverty. Is it?
 

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That's interesting for sure. Basically we do not get to experience it all but once its working there is a lot which we can go through and because it works certainly in many ways.
 

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