Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troops

[Free Karma]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

Any updates about our soldiers?

Still on, waiting for officials to meet according to this:

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Main News

As the stand-off between Indian and Chinese troops continues at the remote Chumar region of the South Eastern Ladakh, New Delhi has assessed this as Beijing's move to create a fresh dispute at a high mountain pass which provides Indian Army a commanding view over the Chepzi (Zhipuqi-Quebusi) area in China.

Sources confirmed that the stand-off was continuing. "The situation remains fluid as of now," said a senior functionary. Sources today said the Indian Army and the Indo-Tibetan Border Police (ITBP) troops are locked in an eyeball-to-eyeball situation with the Chinese at the pass.

The pass is known as 'R-30' and is some 14,600 feet high. South of it is Tibet and China where a road runs through Zhipuqi and Qeibusi and ends at the south of 'R-30'. This Tibetan area is wedged between between Himachal Pradesh and Jammu Kashmir. On its side China has built a new road that can bring vehicles south of the mountain pass and now wants Indian troops to move back from the commanding heights from the top of the pass.

Since the 3,488-km Line of Actual Control (LAC) is not demarcated on ground and perceptions about its exact location vary, troops of both sides patrol in the areas claimed by the other. New Delhi has objections as a part of the road falls in the disputed zone. India sends patrols in that area. Like any other disputed zone along the LAC, both sides are not expected to construct anything.

The Indian Army yesterday told China that the stand-off must end and cited how the 2005 protocol was being violated. "As per the protocol, soldiers on either side have to show a banner to the other side asking to withdraw," said sources.

Showing of a banner is a standard operating procedure and is called 'banner drill'. It is done when troops of the two sides come face-to-face due to differences on the alignment of the LAC or any other reason. This was first reported in today's edition of The Tribune.

Another meeting is planned tomorrow at Chusul in eastern Ladakh and the level of officers could be higher. Brigadier-level officers had participated in yesterday's meeting which was inconclusive. It is possible that the GoC of the 3 Division based at Karu could be part of the deliberations with his counterpart.

Notably Chinese President Xi Jingping also arrives on a three-day visit to India tomorrow.

Also see this:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...kh-face-off-still-on/articleshow/42658498.cms

The troop face-off at Chumar as well as the "civilian confrontation" at Demchok continued in eastern Ladakh on Tuesday, with India awaiting China's response to the "concerns and objections" raised at the brigadier-level flag meeting on Monday.

Another flag meeting is likely to take place at the Spanggur Gap border meeting point within "a day or two" in a bid to defuse the tensions prevailing along the line of actual control (LAC). This even as India rolls out the red carpet for Chinese President Xi Jinping, who is on a three-day visit beginning from Wednesday.

"In the flag meeting on Monday, India asked China to withdraw from the two areas and adhere to the 2005 Border Protocol between the two sides. But the Chinese sector commander said he would have to seek instructions from his higher HQs. In effect, the meeting was inconclusive," said a source.
Though the government maintained the Chumar and Demchok incidents are "routine in nature" due to "differing perceptions" about where the LAC lies, the fact remains that in both the cases the confrontation has stretched well beyond a couple of days. This is unusual for the border flare-ups that occur due to aggressive patrolling by both sides to lay claim to disputed areas.

A similar face-off had also erupted just before Chinese premier Li Keqiang's visit to India in May last year, which had lasted for 21 days after Chinese troops intruded 19km into Depsang valley in the Daulat Beg Oldi (DBO) sector.

The Indian post at Chumar, with its observation points and surveillance cameras, was also the bone of contention during the Depsang face-off. It was finally defused after India dismantled what it called "a tin shed" at Chumar and the PLA troops simultaneously withdrew from Depsang.

As reported by TOI, the ongoing troop face-off at Chumar was triggered after Indian soldiers last week prevented People's Liberation Army from building a road right up to Chepzi on the LAC in the sector where the altitude varies from 11,000 to 15,000 feet.

Though the over 100 Indian troops were outnumbered 1:3, they confronted the Chinese soldiers equipped with cranes and bulldozers and then asked them to withdraw. "As it is, the PLA has built massive infrastructure all along the LAC, and the gap is ever-increasing. They have become especially active in the Chumar sector since our positions there overlook theirs," said a source.

China, in turn, had actively obstructed Indian civilian workers from constructing a water irrigation channel under the NREGA scheme at Demchok for the last one week. A large number of Chinese graziers, ferried on PLA vehicles from their village called Toshigang, have pitched tents at the site to ensure the Indian workers cannot engage in the construction of the water channel.

 

[pmaitra]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

From the post above:

As reported by TOI, the ongoing troop face-off at Chumar was triggered after Indian soldiers last week prevented People's Liberation Army from building a road right up to Chepzi on the LAC in the sector where the altitude varies from 11,000 to 15,000 feet.

Though the over 100 Indian troops were outnumbered 1:3, they confronted the Chinese soldiers equipped with cranes and bulldozers and then asked them to withdraw. "As it is, the PLA has built massive infrastructure all along the LAC, and the gap is ever-increasing. They have become especially active in the Chumar sector since our positions there overlook theirs," said a source.

It is good to know that India troops are actively preventing those PLA clown from creating trouble in that area. I think it is time we adopted a policy of permanently manning those positions. I feel sorry for the harships the troops will have to endure in the harsh winters, but we cannot afford to lose more territory.

 

[Kshatriya87]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

Yesterday evening news x and india tv did report it.

Agreed but it was not discussed on other channels much. This news needs to be shown repeatedly and needs to be tracked so that the Indian citizens know whats happening. Also, this will put pressure on our government to take reasonable action.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

LATEST NEWS ON NDTV says CHINESE HAVE MOVED IN 1000 TROOPS into 4-5 KM of INDIAN TERRITORY.......

BLOODY CHINESE, THIS TIME WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM SOMETHING THAT THEY WILL NEVER FORGET...........

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

This is in CHUMUR

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

IS INDIA SO WEAK THAT WE CANNOT TEACH THESE CHINESE A LESSON. Shame on the MODI government........

Same thing is being repeated. But the difference is that in 1962 they came after the Chinese President went back to China and this time its very soon as the Chinese president just came to India and the PLA have entered into India, that too 1000 PLA SOLDIERS...

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

1000 Chinese troops have crossed over about 5 km into Indian territory in Chumur, say reports.

 

[Compersion]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

Is it disputed .. Is it disrupted is it porous border game ... Only matter of time before someone gets hurt and injured and it looks all childish.

 

[ezsasa]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

Fundamental question!!! @pmaitra @Ray
Can't the China border issue be solved thru ICC at Hague?

Even the Russia-China border issue took almost 30 years to resolve bilaterally starting with a conflict in 69

 

[Free Karma]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

IS INDIA SO WEAK THAT WE CANNOT TEACH THESE CHINESE A LESSON. Shame on the MODI government........

Same thing is being repeated. But the difference is that in 1962 they came after the Chinese President went back to China and this time its very soon as the Chinese president just came to India and the PLA have entered into India, that too 1000 PLA SOLDIERS...

[tweet]512427357773131776[/tweet]

 

[Kshatriya87]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

LATEST NEWS ON NDTV says CHINESE HAVE MOVED IN 1000 TROOPS into 4-5 KM of INDIAN TERRITORY.......

BLOODY CHINESE, THIS TIME WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM SOMETHING THAT THEY WILL NEVER FORGET...........

That report also says that India has deployed 1500 soldiers there and have halted Chinese soldiers.

 

[Free Karma]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

After Modi's hard talk with Xi in Delhi, Chinese troops pull back in Chumar : India, News - India Today

Nearly 1000 soldiers of the People's Liberation Army, who had made incursions into the Chumar region in Jammu and Kashmir, have reportedly pulled back from their positions even as India demanded a total withdrawal from its territories on Thursday.

Sources on Thursday said the PLA troops have pulled nearly 2 km back from their position. Meanwhile, the Indian Army has sent reinforcements to Chumar and is now awaiting China's response on a flag meeting it has called with the PLA.

The faceoff between the Indian and Chinese soldiers since Wednesday had dampened the bonhomie around Chinese President Xi Jingping's three-day visit to India, reminding the two countries of the problems underlying growing commercial ties. Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Jinping held talks at New Delhi's Hyderabad House during which the Indian side conveyed its concerns over Chinese incursions as the two sides discussed all "substantive issues" having their bearing on the bilateral ties.

Modi and Xi first held talks in a restricted format, which was followed by a delegation level deliberation during which the two leaders also focused on cooperation in key areas of trade and investment.

"Let me assure you all these issues have been raised and issues of concern, including recent events, will continue to be discussed," Ministry of External Affairs spokesman Syed Akbaruddin said in response to a question about the Chumar standoff.

Modi, who hosted a private dinner for Xi in Ahmedabad, raised the issue of Chinese incursions on Wednesday night as well as Thursday morning, official sources said. The Chinese Army pushed in more troops into Chumar village along the Line of Actual Control in the wee hours on Thursday.

The Chinese side had pushed in more troops on Wednesday morning as well, the sources said, adding the number of People's Liberation Army personnel stood at nearly 1000. Chumar, located more than 300 km northeast of Leh and bordering Himachal Pradesh, has been a flashpoint between the two sides with the Chinese Army making several attempts to end India's dominance in the area. The stand-off in Demchok where Chinese nomads -- Rebos -- had pitched their tents is continuing. The incursion in this area is nearly 500 metres deep into Indian territory.

Meanwhile, about 20 supporters of free Tibet, mainly women, protested within a few metres of Hyderabad House in New Delhi where Modi and Xi were holding talks, waving Tibetan flags and shouting "We want justice." Police detained them after a few minutes. Several other small pro-Tibet protests broke out across the national capital.

Speaking in Mumbai, Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama said Xi should use his visit to learn from the Indian experience of democratic rule and learn democratic practices. "I think the Chinese president should learn some of India's experience. Democratic rule, rule of law, and free media," he said. In a sign that Modi wanted Xi's visit to be a success, the Centre had asked the Dalai Lama, whom Beijing labels a dangerous separatist seeking an independent Tibet, to reschedule an event in the national capital so that it would not clash with the Chinese president's trip.

 

[Peter]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

The devious Chinese keep on doing their silly tricks. While they are busy poking into India`s borders they do not see the separatist movement that is brewing in Xinjiang and Tibet. Also Modiji should be praised for his hard talk with the Chinese and not being meek to them like "Mouna Mohan" Singh.

 

[Ray]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

Three cheers for Mickey Modi.

A PM at last.

But also give credit to Xi.

I don't trust the Chinese, but let us see.

Xi appears to be more pragmatic and accommodating.

He should be if he is to concentrate on SCS, which is where the gold lies for China and not the barren waste of Western Tibet, where China has already bitten and devoured much that it desired.

 

[Free Karma]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

35 Chinese soldiers return to Ladakh’s Chumar, sit on a hillock - The Times of India

Hours after withdrawing from the Chumar region in Ladakh, Chinese PLA soldiers were on Friday reported to have crossed into Indian territory again and stationed themselves on a hillock. Official sources said about 35 PLA men returned to Chumar in northeast Ladakh and were perched on a hillock claiming the area to be part of China while another 300 soldiers were maintaining presence close to line of actual control (LAC).

The standoff in Demchok and Chumar had cast a shadow on Thursday's summit talks between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chinese President Xi Jinping. The Indian Army, which had starting scaling down operations from the area following the Chinese withdrawal last night, put a halt and again started pitching their tents for a possible fresh stand-off, the sources said. They said that nearly 300 Chinese soldiers were spotted across the perceived LAC with many of them stationed in their vehicles while others on foot.

This, the sources said, was apparently done by Chinese PLA as the Indian army had not completely withdrawn from the region which is part of Jammu & Kashmir.
Chinese troops, without any border meeting, had started withdrawing from the area at 9.45pm and the Indian army had also started reducing their presence in the area. However, as a part of its drill, some Army presence was maintained in the area to verify whether the Chinese had actually returned to their territory which was possible only after the break of dawn on Saturday. In the morning, after Indian Army spotted PLA presence close to the LAC, it was decided to stop reduction of troops till it was verified that the Chinese have gone back to their camps located 10km from the LAC.

The tension in this area erupted on Sunday when some of the Chinese workers, who were constructing road on their side, started entering into the Indian side and also claimed that they had orders to build road upto Tible, five kilometres deep into the Indian territory.

 

[Agni5]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

My apologies, for the language brother.

 

[Voldemort]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Chinese-incursion-15-battalions-in-Ladakh-on-high-alert/articleshow/43116555.cms

 

[mattster]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

If you want a simple one-liner definition of the China-India relationship - this would be it:

Shake the right hand of India, and immediately slap India on the face with the left hand

Now the Chinese are master planners who never do anything random when it comes to relationship between countries.
The military in China will never do anything unless it has explicit instruction from the highest levels of the CCP - the Xi Jinping level of authority.
So if you are an Indian you have to ask yourself; why does China get such a big thrill by humiliating India.....even to the point that it makes them look petty, unprofessional, and downright clownish by doing it when Xi and Modi are breaking bread in Delhi ??

This is not an isolated incident, every time a Chinese leader visits Delhi, the next day the PLA troops are 20 miles inside on the Indian side of the LAC like clockwork.

The answer lies in the basic Chinese perspective of India as a weak state, combined with the mentality of respecting only hard-power.
In the case of India....using border incursions is the only tool that China has for influencing Indian strategic thinking in terms of aligning with the US, etc.

The Chinese seem confident that that can use aggression on the border as their trump card......but then, why do it while their leader is visiting India - it is so unbecoming of a civilized mature power. Part of it could be the lack of mature power "statecraft".......something that the Chinese leadership are new to.

But in my view - the main rationale for it is simply that they do it, because they can !

The Chinese are firm believers in harvesting the low-hanging fruit first. India is a low-hanging fruit.
They would rather copy than develop some technology themselves, and only develop something new when they can't copy anymore.
Likewise, they carry that same mentality to sports, technology, and everything else.
They would apply this same strategy with Japan, Vietnam and Philippines, but there is always the concern that the US 7th fleet will be permanently parked in the South China Sea if they go too far. But with India there are no such considerations to be had.

The moral of the lesson - weakness, goodwill, passivity, good intentions, cooperation, trade, commerce, etc, carry no weight with the Chinese. If you want their attention, they have to first respect your power and your capabilities.

 

[mattster]

Re: Another face-off as 300 Chinese soldiers surround 100 Indian troop

In some ways - China is like the story of the poor guy who suddenly becomes rich. He goes out and buys a house and then tears it down, and builds a huge ugly preposterous mansion that becomes an eyesore to all his quiet upper class neighbours. He buys expensive cars, watches, clothes, and jewelry and pretty soon ends up looking like a pimp.....and in the end, no one in the community wants to be seen anywhere near him.

Contrast that to someone who is who grew up wealthy and does not do anything to bring undue attention to themselves.

in the case of China - they are starting to push their new found power and wealth outward - but they better be careful so they don't start looking like a bully/pimp.