Australia a nation once "roamed by rascals and outlaws", claims China

thethinker

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Re: Australia a nation once "roamed by rascals and outlaws", claims Ch

Cultural differences, which actually maybe has some relevance to this thread. Threatening someone with violence, while frowned on, wouldn't lead to any sanction in any western professional sport.
Violent threats may be permissible in other sports but is strictly frowned upon in cricket which is not a completely Western professional sport considering the nations that play it.

The point is that Aus cricket team taking offense over an abuse which is in grey area of being racial is being over-sensitive when compared to the clear violent threats they make to others all the time.
 

ladder

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Re: Australia a nation once "roamed by rascals and outlaws", claims Ch

Thought he'd admitted it when the crowds in Wankhede, etc... started the monkey chants for Symonds in 2007. But, it would seem he never publically acknowledged he'd said that word. Sorry about that, although I'm even more sorry I mentioned his name in the first place and brought this subject up as it's not that relevant.



Cultural differences, which actually maybe has some relevance to this thread. Threatening someone with violence, while frowned on, wouldn't lead to any sanction in any western professional sport. Well, except maybe golf or billiards or something.

Likewise, I strongly suspect that Chinese article was attempting to be extremely offensive to Australia. But, I'm not sure whether the article can be judged on intent and I'm not really sure what the intent was...

Is an awkward situation, but I guess a common one in International Relations.
Then we should go with what has been admitted and vetted by the disciplinary panel isn't it?

Now coming to cultural differences and all the excuses about aggression and little bit elbowing and nudging in an non-contact sport is not punishable even though mentioned otherwise in code of conduct was because your men were sitting on the top.

Those practices aren't a legacy which should be continued.
 

Ray

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Re: Australia a nation once "roamed by rascals and outlaws", claims Ch

The repeal of the Carbon Tax and border control have received strong support from his voter base and strengthened his position with- in his own party. But they weren't universally appreciated and exist amongst a plethora of stupid plans, and statements, of his. Don't think he's won over many new supporters and his support within his own party is slipping.

Don't like using the term "The West", in general. Particularly on this forum.

For example, I "represent" the West. I consider Rommel an incompetent, unreformed Nazi, with the blood of millions of innocents on his hands and I sincerely hope that he's not enjoying burning in hell. The only thing great about Che was his beard, and Mao was a coward, who only came to power because Chinese society of the time was such a failure.
Nothing in politics is universally accepted or popular.

Popularity wax and wane.

Hardnosed decisions does well for the Nation, but may not be popular.

Once the results come, it becomes the toast of the Nation.

Wake up to the political world!

You may not like Rommel, Guderian or Manstein or anyone German.

But then you may not be conversant with military tactics and strategy. Those who are, and even those who faced these German Generals, appreciate their military acumen.

So, who matters? You who has not seen war or the ones who saw war and fought these very German General and who sang paeans about their acumen?

Mao and Che are official reading material for the Indian Army. Surprised?

@ apple

I can actually refer to H. Singh again, with out describing Monkeygate. Harbhajan had admitted to using the term monkey well before Monkeygate. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, the first (and arguably only) time he used it he possibly didn't understand how objectionable a term it is in English.
Good that the Australians think the word is "monkey" and they found it highly objectionable. I believe Golliwog is also objectionable.

But if the Australians understood what is 'Ma ki"¦.', given their short tempers, they would be touched to the quick and there would have been a riot at hand!

I would consider Abbott's use of the word honour, in regards to the conduct of the Japanese armed forces in WW2, to be very objectionable. I'd like to think I' m pretty open-minded and I certainly know plenty of Australians who are far more nationalistic or xenophobic than myself. If I don't "admire the honour" of the Japanese during WW2, I really don't know who this "we" is that Abbott is talking about. Also, he was talking in the past tense i.e. he was referring to Australian's of past generations. Public opinion of Japanese post WW2 was, to put it mildly, not good.

I consider the accuracy of Abbott's remarks to cross over the border from dubious, into false. So yes, I consider that statement of his a lie.

Personally, I think Abbott's statement was purely intended for a Japanese audience and that he presumed it wouldn't be widely reported in Australia and he hadn't even considered the Chinese. But, I'm started to get pretty biased against Abbott and strongly suspect he's quite incompetent. So, I'm not the best judge.
Good that you are all narrow minded unlike us.

I presume it is cultural thing. Unlike Australians who have not really historically experienced real combat until WWs, India has always had battles and wars historically. That is why we appreciate valour even of our enemies since valour knows no religion, community or national boundaries. I have appended links in other threads of Pakistani officers getting Pakistan's highest gallantry awards on Indian recommendations! Kernal Sher Khan in Kargil and the Armoured Corps Colonel who counter attacked in Barapind and was commended by Col VP AIrey, the CO 3 GRENADIERS, the unit the Pakistani Colonel led the counter attack against.

Further reinforced possibly by our cultural and civilisation bequeathed psyche of forgiveness and compassion. Examples abound: No animosity towards Britain, going overboard to be chummy with Pakistan etc etc.

You are entitled to dislike whoever you want, but you cannot wish away the good he has done for Australia.

China is a marauder and he is only ensuring safety of his shores by cosying up with yesterday's enemies.

There is no permanent friend or foe in international politics. There is merely permanent national interests.

While it doesn't conform with accepted use of the word, when Australians say Asia we mean S.E. Asia+ China and Japan. India, etc... is the Subcontinent. West of Pakistan is the Middle East and (sorry about this Kazahks, etc...)Central Asia doesn't exist. Will try to use a more international English in the future.
Rudd did much for Asia as per the Australian meaning of Asia?

If so, what?
 
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apple

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Re: Australia a nation once "roamed by rascals and outlaws", claims Ch

I'm a bit busy at the moment. But, I'll reply to @Ray and others point later... on Monday maybe.

Just wanted to, one again, say I regret mentioning cricket. Along with monkeygate, which I wont discuss at all, I will not introduce cricket into a discuss from now on. Although, I might reply to posts on that subject.

I wasn't trying to make a point about who said what, when, where and how. I was, a bit clumsily perhaps, trying to make a point about cultural differences, which I thought was relevant to the story in the Chinese newspaper.
 
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Ray

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Re: Australia a nation once "roamed by rascals and outlaws", claims Ch

There is nothing wrong about introducing cricket.

It is a totally silly thing that happened.

It happens.

Nothing that can ruin the relationship.
 

apple

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Re: Australia a nation once "roamed by rascals and outlaws", claims Ch

Peoples' Daily is the more restrained views of the Govt of China.

The Global Times is the unrestrained view of the Govt of China spouting on behalf of the Govt of China what they don';t want to say upfront.
OK, I'll try and remember that.

Nothing in politics is universally accepted or popular.

Popularity wax and wane.

Hardnosed decisions does well for the Nation, but may not be popular.

Once the results come, it becomes the toast of the Nation.

Wake up to the political world!

Sure, but there's popular, and then there's universally popular. The Carbon Tax was a good example as, to put it crudely, it was popular with right wing voters and unpopular with the left. But, that's not entirely true and Abbott would have lost some of those who voted for him, but are very concerned with the environment and will have changed their vote.

You may not like Rommel, Guderian or Manstein or anyone German.

But then you may not be conversant with military tactics and strategy. Those who are, and even those who faced these German Generals, appreciate their military acumen.

So, who matters? You who has not seen war or the ones who saw war and fought these very German General and who sang paeans about their acumen?

Mao and Che are official reading material for the Indian Army. Surprised?

I have got nothing against Germans, unless they were Nazis, and can certainly understand if their military thinkers are studied by others in the same profession. Abbott, however, was talking about the public perception of the actions of the Japanese during WW2, which I consider a different situation.

Am a bit surprised about Mao and Che being studied.

While I know little of Chinese Civil War, my perception was that the Chinese communists fled from battle for approximately a dozen years, before their enemy collapsed, due to their own corruption, and Mao "picked up the pieces" of the country. Although, I guess India and China have some serious issues, so I would be useful for Indians to understand Mao's thoughts. And I guess Mao was the winner of the Chinese Civil War, which gives his ideas some extra resonance.

While we are getting off topic, but do you have an opinion on why Che is still read? Is Che an inspiration for your Marxist (Naxalites???) insurgents


I believe Golliwog is also objectionable.

Yes, that's not a good word to use

Good that you are all narrow minded unlike us.

I presume it is cultural thing. Unlike Australians who have not really historically experienced real combat until WWs, India has always had battles and wars historically. That is why we appreciate valour even of our enemies since valour knows no religion, community or national boundaries. I have appended links in other threads of Pakistani officers getting Pakistan's highest gallantry awards on Indian recommendations! Kernal Sher Khan in Kargil and the Armoured Corps Colonel who counter attacked in Barapind and was commended by Col VP AIrey, the CO 3 GRENADIERS, the unit the Pakistani Colonel led the counter attack against.

Further reinforced possibly by our cultural and civilisation bequeathed psyche of forgiveness and compassion. Examples abound: No animosity towards BritainFind this comment somewhat strange on this forum, going overboard to be chummy with Pakistan As with this oneetc etc.

You are entitled to dislike whoever you want, but you cannot wish away the good he has done for Australia.

You are talking about Abbott? I don't dislike him, although alot of his statements I disagree with or find objectionable. I'd much rather him being in office, after the Russians murdered all those Australians on MH17, than most other recent PM's.

China is a marauder and he is only ensuring safety of his shores by cosying up with yesterday's enemies.

There is no permanent friend or foe in international politics. There is merely permanent national interests.



Rudd did much for Asia as per the Australian meaning of Asia?

If so, what?
Australia had serious issues with China when Rudd was PM. The Chinese govt. was annoyed they were prevented from buying shares in an Australian mining company. Australian government employees i.e. politicians, were prevented entry to China and an Australian businessman in China was arrested for corruption.

While that situation was far more serious than this current one it had some similiarities, in regards to, cultural differences.

Politicians are despised in Australia and are used to being insulted. Also, they have no (or little) control over companies, the engine of the economy, and preventing their entrance to China barely effected the Australian economy. Also the businessman arrested, was as guilty as sin and his Australian citizenship was pretty dubious.

So, while I think the Chinese were trying to be offensive and were taking what they thought were strong actions against the "Western Capitalist dog pig lackeys", Australia barely cared and Rudd negotiated a 50(???) billion dollar natural gas deal during this storm in a teacup.
 
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Ray

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Re: Australia a nation once "roamed by rascals and outlaws", claims Ch

@apple,

If you answer within my post as a reply, then it is awfully difficult to pick them out, append and then reply.

In case you wish to reply by blocks of my post, then put them in quotes and reply.
 
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W.G.Ewald

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Re: Australia a nation once "roamed by rascals and outlaws", claims Ch

@apple

I consider Rommel an incompetent, unreformed Nazi, with the blood of millions of innocents on his hands and I sincerely hope that he's not enjoying burning in hell.
Rommel? He was part of the plot to assassinate Hitler and was murdered by Gestapo. Could you be referring to Ribbentrop or Rosenberg, or even Goebbels?

Rommel does not even appear on this list.

List of Nazi Party leaders and officials - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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Ajesh

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Re: Australia a nation once "roamed by rascals and outlaws", claims Ch

Well nothing wrong in what the Chinese said, Isnt that the case with Australia? The brits sent their convicts and criminals to Australia.
 

apple

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Re: Australia a nation once "roamed by rascals and outlaws", claims Ch

@apple,

If you answer within my post as a reply, then it is awfully difficult to pick them out, append and then reply.

In case you wish to reply by blocks of my post, then put them in quotes and reply.
OK, I'll do that in the future.

I think in this case, I' m damned if I do, damned if I don't. I've been told off by moderators, on other forums, for including too many shorts quotes in my replies as, apparently, it slows down the loading of the page. Also, I've had posters angry at me for replying to them in red text as, apparently, it makes me seem like I'm putting myself up as a teacher who is correcting their post...

@apple



Rommel? He was part of the plot to assassinate Hitler and was murdered by Gestapo. Could you be referring to Ribbentrop or Rosenberg, or even Goebbels?

Rommel does not even appear on this list.

List of Nazi Party leaders and officials - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Damn, you were the one who took the bait.

Have to admit I was on an internet fishing expedition and was hoping to catch a 14 year old aryan cyber warrior. Every good Chairborne General has a opinion on Rommel.

While most of my detailed knowledge of Rommel comes from Irving's biography on him, I'd be hesitant to link him too closely to the "bomb- plot officers". I certainly consider him a proper Nazi.




Although, I don't really want him to burn in hell and calling him incompetent is going a bit far. But, to catch a fish you need to bait the hook.
 
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