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Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

  1. #16
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    Re: Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    China claims that its population is 93% Han.

    Are they all really Han?

    Or 'barbarians' assimilated as 'Han'?
    are you try to be racist? maybe, you ought take some ancient history of other culture, rome, mongol. then to industrail age, european 1st land in america & africa, modern history imperial japan, nazi. every nation on earth has war, etc etc

  2. #17
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    Re: Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray View Post
    This is the modern application of how assimilation is achieved in China.

    ************************


    China’s Counterinsurgency Strategy in Tibet and Xinjiang

    Separatist riots in Tibet in 2008 and in Xinjiang in 2009 demonstrated that Chinese authorities may be efficient at riot control. But the protests also indicate that China has not addressed the root causes of recurring ethnic unrest and deteriorating loyalty towards the Chinese regime among Tibetans and Uyghurs.

    Counterinsurgency is not only about eradicating insurgents. It also aims at de-linking the insurgents from the local population by undertaking societal and institutional reform. Chinese counterinsurgency usually achieves the first objective, but not the second.

    China focuses on maintaining physical security and stability by means of police and public security officials, using the People’s Liberation Army as a last resort. This approach has successfully maintained physical security by terminating large-scale violence and protecting political authorities.

    The downside to the strategy is that societal and institutional reform is crowded out. Tibetan and Uyghur minorities question China’s entitlement to rule over them because their demands for achieving greater status, prosperity, and influence are not met. The pressures on ethnic minorities for trading in cultural distinctiveness with social opportunity in China are illustrated by the inclination of Tibetans and Uyghurs to adopt Han Chinese names to conceal their genealogical inheritance.

    The unequal economic opportunities available to ethnic minorities compared to Han Chinese are demonstrated by the absence of Tibetans and Uyghurs in positions of decision-making power in profitable economic enterprises. The minimal political influence of non-Han Chinese is indicated by the lack of cooperation between Chinese officials and local Tibetan and Uyghur leaders with influence among their ethnic kin.

    One explanation of the problems of Chinese counterinsurgency is the assimilationist traits of Chinese nationalism. These engender a uniform concept of the cultural practices of the Chinese nation that is incompatible with ethnic pluralism. Another explanation is the bias towards vertical coordination within China’s political system.

    This structure allows security agencies to carry out their part of counterinsurgency efficiently. But horizontal coordination is poor between security agencies and agencies responsible for societal and institutional reform. This in turn prevents China from addressing the concerns of ethnic minorities that continue to fuel discontent.

    China’s Counterinsurgency Strategy in Tibet and Xinjiang | Asia Pacific Memo
    there are what 55 ethnic group in china, and almost all are live in china fine. tibet want more religion freedom, while Uyghurs want independent, they are treated same as han chinese. as far as economic opporunity they have more chance compare to average han chinese, as ethnic miniority can get to better school with lower test score, can have more childreen compare to han etc etc. if they choose not to learn mandrian and not take these opportunities, then this is nothing anybody can do. however they are plenty tibet/uyghur do that, and become quality engineer,businessman, police, and government official. only those who are unemployee & lower income complain about the government, which is same for any country.

  3. #18
    G90
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    Re: Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

    Han race's indictor Y-DNA is O3a5 M-134 and O3*, which account for more than 50% of any of the Han ethnics in any region of China saving for a few "Han" living in the border area between China and Vietnam.

    Of cause Han race is not a pure race, but still it is one of the purest race in terms of Y-DNA frequency if you even follow genetic studies since few ethnics in east asia have such a high freqency of their Y-DNA belong to an unique ancestry group like Han Chinese (not Japan, their D2 only account for 40% of modern Japanese, not for mongolians, their C3c and C3 only acount for 43% of modern monglians,not for Koreans or Vietnamese, their dominating Y-DNA are not even belong to their own ancestors (which can be judged by the fact that that Y-DNA not matched by their dominating mtDNA) but Chinese).

    And northern Han race are "purer" than southern han race not by their Y-DNA (which represents their male-side ancestors) but their mtDNA (which indcates their female ancestors).

    As for baiyue, actually baiyue's Y-DNA is basically non-existenting among Southern Han race, and their mtDNA
    only become significant among Cantonese people or someone even souther.

    I dont have the genetic distance map yet, but I can bring you laterly.

    In terms of measured pair-wise genetic distance (Fst,which is pair-wised total DNA distance, not just Y-DNA or mtDNA), the Fst distance between Northern and Southern Han race is just as wide as the DNA distance between German and Swedish, and much smaller than the Fst between German and Italians, and in terms of Fst, the genetic distance between Northern and Central Han Chinese is just as wide as the Fst between Northern and Southern Germans

    So sure you can tell Han is not a pure race, but it is still far more purer than white, let along indians, which is a mess in terms of purity.
    Last edited by G90; 17-07-12 at 12:17 AM.

  4. #19
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    Re: Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

    The sample fact is Han race is far far purer than white (10x-20x purer, in terms of Fst genetic distance), and in terms of Y-DNA, it is one of the purest in the world, so deal with it, poor indians.

    No wonder white guys admits "All Chinese looks the same", which again, confirmed the fact the Fst between Chinese is far smaller than the Fst between whites (only comparable to the Fst between Swedish and German or between German and Austrians) through empirical observations, hehehe
    Last edited by G90; 17-07-12 at 12:18 AM.

  5. #20
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    Re: Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

    Pair-wised Fst between Northern and Southern Han Chinese:

    http://i45.tinypic.com/2e1c6ix.gif

    Pair-wised Fst between different European ethinics:

    References:

    References (all are academic journal paper published after 2000):

    [1]http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B8JDD-4XSVPH4-1&_user=10&_coverDate=12%2F11%2F2009&_rdoc=1&_fmt= high&_orig=browse&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221& _version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=d12dff5eb1 f3935e0123c56ad2d19be8

    [2]http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0005472#pone.0005472.s003

  6. #21
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    Re: Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

    The Fst distance between different European groups: http://i45.tinypic.com/1411vf5.jpg, this is from [2] Genetic Structure of Europeans: A View from the North–East, PLos One, 2009, the one which show the Fst for Chinese is ffrom [1]: Genomic Dissection of Population Substructure of Han Chinese and Its Implication in Association Studies, The American Journal of Human Genetics, Vol. 85, Issue 6, pp.762-774.

    So learn to live with it, hehehe.

  7. #22
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    Re: Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

    Han, the earliest ancestor ,huaxia( Tocharian),is the white tribes from Central Asia, all the way down and Tungus, Baiyue, Miaoman mestizo, Han is a big dye vat. Many Mongolia and Manchu are integrated.

  8. #23
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    Re: Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

    Quote Originally Posted by nimo_cn View Post
    Just like Oracle, if you two are not father and son, then you two must be related.


    I have searched the archives and find no such thing, would you please kindly direct me to the threads you are refering to?

    PS: Oracle's response to my request for evidence


    Over 19,000 may lose net connectivity on Monday
    Have you ever been direct about anything?
    521707 386141578096536 1414399079 n
    I am a common man. but I will stir the smooth sands of status quoism, monotony & apathy.

  9. #24
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    Re: Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

    Quote Originally Posted by s002wjh View Post
    are you try to be racist? maybe, you ought take some ancient history of other culture, rome, mongol. then to industrail age, european 1st land in america & africa, modern history imperial japan, nazi. every nation on earth has war, etc etc
    No I am not a racist, but a pragmatist.

    Racist is a very loosely used word, when one discusses these issues and one has nothing constructive to offer being fact denied and embarrassed.

    Racism means discrimination or prejudice based on race.

    How does my post qualify?

    The issue is what the Chinese Govt statistics state and whether Han is a race or a culture.
    521707 386141578096536 1414399079 n
    I am a common man. but I will stir the smooth sands of status quoism, monotony & apathy.

  10. #25
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    Re: Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

    Quote Originally Posted by nimo_cn View Post
    Han is never defined by blood but by culture..

    So.. is Han a race or a culture??? You say it's a culture! any evidence? Or is it really a race which is dimishing due to cross-breeding? just curious to know the facts.

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    Re: Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

    Quote Originally Posted by s002wjh View Post
    there are what 55 ethnic group in china, and almost all are live in china fine. tibet want more religion freedom, while Uyghurs want independent, they are treated same as han chinese. as far as economic opporunity they have more chance compare to average han chinese, as ethnic miniority can get to better school with lower test score, can have more childreen compare to han etc etc. if they choose not to learn mandrian and not take these opportunities, then this is nothing anybody can do. however they are plenty tibet/uyghur do that, and become quality engineer,businessman, police, and government official. only those who are unemployee & lower income complain about the government, which is same for any country.
    I don't know what the fuzz is all about. It may be true that Ray hates PRC but the post is so neutral and not racy at all. It is merely trying to rule out if Han is indeed a race. I suggest Our Chinese posters to enlighten everybody instead of making paranoid defensive responses since you assume to be more knowledgeable on this topic.

  12. #27
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    Re: Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

    Quote Originally Posted by s002wjh View Post
    there are what 55 ethnic group in china, and almost all are live in china fine. tibet want more religion freedom, while Uyghurs want independent, they are treated same as han chinese. as far as economic opporunity they have more chance compare to average han chinese, as ethnic miniority can get to better school with lower test score, can have more childreen compare to han etc etc. if they choose not to learn mandrian and not take these opportunities, then this is nothing anybody can do. however they are plenty tibet/uyghur do that, and become quality engineer,businessman, police, and government official. only those who are unemployee & lower income complain about the government, which is same for any country.


    350px Ethnolinguistic map of China 1983



    There are 56 ethnic groups in China that are officially recognized by the government of the People's Republic of China.
     The not recognised ethnic minorities are
     Ayi people
     Äynu people
     Gejia (亻革家人, Gèjiā Rén)
     Bajia (八甲人, Bājiǎ Rén)
     Deng (僜人, Dèng Rén)
     Khmu (克木人, Kèmù Rén)
     Kucong (Yellow Lahu/Lahu Shi (苦聪人; Traditional: 苦聰人; Kǔcōng Rén)
     Mang (芒人, Máng Rén)
     Sherpas (夏尔巴人; Traditional: 夏爾巴人; Xiàěrbā Rén)
     Tuvans (图瓦人, Túwǎ Rén)
     Waxiang (瓦乡人, Wǎxiāng Rén)
     Yi (羿人, Yìrén)
     Youtai (犹太; Traditional: 猶太; Yóutài) (Jewish people of China and Jewish people in general)
     Yamato Japanese (大和民族) and Ryukyuans (琉球民族) living as permanent residents in Taiwan and North East China
     Macanese (土生葡人, Descendant of Portuguese in Macau since 16th century)

    What you have mentioned in your post is just what the article mentions.

    It is correct that there are many facilities given to the Tibetans and Uighurs that are not given to the Han. And yet they are not happy. They are not happy since they possibly want to maintain their singular identity to include language, culture, religion, customs, tradition and so on.

    That is not want China wants. China want then to be assimilated so that they have the same attitude towards nationalism as the Hans. To achieve this, China is ensuring that there is an uniform culture i.e. the Han culture, or in other words, assimilation of the Uighurs and Tibetans and making them Han.

    On the issue of language, they wish to maintain their own language. And yet, the best universities and jobs are in Mainland China and the language there is Mandarin.

    The solution would be to teach both their language as also Mandarin. But then if that is done, then the Uighurs and Tibetan will not get assimilated to become Han. It obviously is not to the advantate of how China wants to shape the country as one monolithic entity where there is no dissension.
    Oblaks likes this.
    521707 386141578096536 1414399079 n
    I am a common man. but I will stir the smooth sands of status quoism, monotony & apathy.

  13. #28
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    Re: Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

    Quote Originally Posted by G90 View Post
    Han race's indictor Y-DNA is O3a5 M-134 and O3*, which account for more than 50% of any of the Han ethnics in any region of China saving for a few "Han" living in the border area between China and Vietnam.

    Of cause Han race is not a pure race, but still it is one of the purest race in terms of Y-DNA frequency if you even follow genetic studies since few ethnics in east asia have such a high freqency of their Y-DNA belong to an unique ancestry group like Han Chinese (not Japan, their D2 only account for 40% of modern Japanese, not for mongolians, their C3c and C3 only acount for 43% of modern monglians,not for Koreans or Vietnamese, their dominating Y-DNA are not even belong to their own ancestors (which can be judged by the fact that that Y-DNA not matched by their dominating mtDNA) but Chinese).

    And northern Han race are "purer" than southern han race not by their Y-DNA (which represents their male-side ancestors) but their mtDNA (which indcates their female ancestors).

    As for baiyue, actually baiyue's Y-DNA is basically non-existenting among Southern Han race, and their mtDNA
    only become significant among Cantonese people or someone even souther.

    I dont have the genetic distance map yet, but I can bring you laterly.

    In terms of measured pair-wise genetic distance (Fst,which is pair-wised total DNA distance, not just Y-DNA or mtDNA), the Fst distance between Northern and Southern Han race is just as wide as the DNA distance between German and Swedish, and much smaller than the Fst between German and Italians, and in terms of Fst, the genetic distance between Northern and Central Han Chinese is just as wide as the Fst between Northern and Southern Germans

    So sure you can tell Han is not a pure race, but it is still far more purer than white, let along indians, which is a mess in terms of purity.


    This did come handy in your post Haplogroup O3 (Y-DNA) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, though you forgot to mention the same.

    Although Haplogroup O3 appears to be primarily associated with Chinese populations, it also forms a significant component of the Y-chromosome diversity of most modern populations of the East Asian region.

    Another good reason why everything in East Asia is Chinese!

    Let me add:

    In human genetics, Haplogroup O3 (M122) is a Y-chromosome haplogroup.

    Haplogroup O3 is a descendant haplogroup of haplogroup O. Some researchers believe that it first appeared in China approximately 10,000 years ago. However, others believe that the high internal diversity of Haplogroup O3 indicates a late Pleistocene (Upper Paleolithic) origin in South China or Southeast Asia of the M122 mutation that defines the entire O3 clade, while the common presence among a wide variety of modern East and Southeast Asian nations of closely related haplotypes belonging to certain subclades of Haplogroup O3 is considered to point to a recent (e.g., Holocene) geographic dispersion of a certain subset of the ancient variation within Haplogroup O3. The spread of these particular subsets of Haplogroup O3 is conjectured to be closely associated with the sudden agricultural boom associated with rice farming.

    Although Haplogroup O3 appears to be primarily associated with Chinese populations, it also forms a significant component of the Y-chromosome diversity of most modern populations of the East Asian region. Haplogroup O3 is found in over 50% of all modern Chinese males (ranging up to over 80% in certain regional subgroups of the Han ethnicity), about 40% of Manchurian, Korean, and Vietnamese males, about 35% of Filipino and Malaysian males, about 25%[1] of Zhuang males, and about 15%[2] to 20%[3] of Japanese males. The distribution of Haplogroup O3 stretches far into Central Asia (approx. 18% of Khalkh Mongols and approx. 6.2% of Altayans[4]) and Oceania (approx. 25% of Polynesians), albeit with reduced frequencies of most subclades. It should be noted that Haplogroup O3* Y-chromosomes, which are not defined by any identified downstream markers, are actually more common among certain non-Chinese populations than among Chinese ones, and the presence of these O3* Y-chromosomes among various populations of Central Asia, East Asia, and Oceania is more likely to reflect a very ancient shared ancestry of these populations rather than the result of any historical events. It remains to be seen whether Haplogroup O3* Y-chromosomes can be parsed into distinct subclades that display significant geographical or ethnic correlations.

    Among all the populations of East and Southeast Asia, Haplogroup O3 is most closely associated with those that speak a Sinitic, Tibeto-Burman, or Hmong-Mien language. Haplogroup O3 comprises about 50% or more of the total Y-chromosome variation among the populations of each of these language families. The Sinitic and Tibeto-Burman language families are generally believed to be derived from a common Sino-Tibetan protolanguage, and most linguists place the homeland of the Sino-Tibetan language family somewhere in northern China. The Hmong-Mien languages and cultures, for various archaeological and ethnohistorical reasons, are also generally believed to have derived from a source somewhere north of their current distribution, perhaps in northern or central China. The Tibetans, however, despite the fact that they speak a language of the Tibeto-Burman language family, have a very high percentage of the otherwise rare Haplogroup D1, which is also found at much lower frequencies throughout Central and Northeast Asia. These facts suggest that Haplogroup O3 is characteristic of the easterly part of the zone of transition between the Northeast Asian and Southeast Asian genepools: namely, the region that comprises the North China Plain and the area between the Yellow and Yangtze rivers. It is notable that Haplogroup O3 is the only haplogroup that occurs at high frequencies among populations that possess Northeast Asian genetic characteristics as well as among populations that possess Southeast Asian genetic characteristics.

    Haplogroup O3 has been implicated as a diagnostic genetic marker of the Austronesian expansion when it is found in populations of Oceania. Its distribution in Oceania is mostly limited to the traditionally Austronesian culture zones, including moderately high frequencies in the Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, and Polynesia, with generally lower frequencies found in coastal and island Melanesia, Micronesia, and Taiwanese aboriginal tribes.

    The subgroup O3a5-M134 is particularly closely associated with Sino-Tibetan populations, and it is generally not found outside of areas where a Sino-Tibetan language is currently spoken or that are historically supposed to have suffered Chinese colonization or immigration, such as Korea, Japan, Vietnam, Malaysia, the Philippines, and Indonesia. However, its presence among non-Sino-Tibetan populations is always very limited and never amounts to more than 10% of the total Y-chromosome diversity. There are also reports that Y-chromosomes belonging to Haplogroup O3a5 have been sampled from populations of such far-flung places as Western Samoa. Surprisingly, Haplogroup O3a5-M134 Y-chromosomes have also been found in about 1% to 3% of indigenous Australian men in the northwest of that continent, which might indicate that a certain degree of contact has occurred between the Austronesian expansion from Asia and some indigenous Australian populations. The fact that Haplogroup O3a5 is so strongly associated with Chinese populations, however, and the fact that no Y-chromosome haplogroups characteristic of Austronesian populations have been found among these indigenous Australian populations may be taken to suggest the possibility of some direct Chinese-Australian contact in the precolonial era.

    Haplogroup O3's brother clade, Haplogroup O1, displays a similar geographical distribution, being found among nearly all the populations of East and Southeast Asia, but generally at a frequency much lower than that of Haplogroup O3. Another brother clade, Haplogroup O2, has an impressive extent of dispersal, as it is found among the males of populations as widely separated as the Mundas of India and the Japanese of Japan; however, Haplogroup O2's distribution is much more patchy, and the Haplogroup O2 Y-chromosomes found among the Mundas and the Japanese belong to distinct subclades.
    Edited by ryukyurhymer, 07 February 2008 - 08:33 PM.
    Japanese Haplogroup O3a5 from Han Chinese - Asian Anthropology - China History Forum, Chinese History Forum
    Last edited by Ray; 17-07-12 at 10:39 AM.
    521707 386141578096536 1414399079 n
    I am a common man. but I will stir the smooth sands of status quoism, monotony & apathy.

  14. #29
    Ray
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    Re: Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

    Haplogroup O3 is characteristic of the easterly part of the zone of transition between the Northeast Asian and Southeast Asian genepools: namely, the region that comprises the North China Plain and the area between the Yellow and Yangtze rivers.
    521707 386141578096536 1414399079 n
    I am a common man. but I will stir the smooth sands of status quoism, monotony & apathy.

  15. #30
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    Re: Han Chinese Y Chromosome Test Results

    Quote Originally Posted by Oblaks View Post
    I don't know what the fuzz is all about. It may be true that Ray hates PRC but the post is so neutral and not racy at all. It is merely trying to rule out if Han is indeed a race. I suggest Our Chinese posters to enlighten everybody instead of making paranoid defensive responses since you assume to be more knowledgeable on this topic.
    I don't hate the Chinese at all.

    I only am interested in putting the facts in place where I feel that misrepresentations are bandied as the Gospel Truth.
    521707 386141578096536 1414399079 n
    I am a common man. but I will stir the smooth sands of status quoism, monotony & apathy.

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