J20 Stealth Fighter

Our real concern is the russian weapons and on the other we are not worried about the chinese weapons, instead we are happy that you people are cutting the order and making some inferior quality goodies and also selling it to our neighbours.

Our weapons platform maybe the same or somewhat similar, but in term of sophistication, Advanced Avionics and Radar systems are substantially for more modern than chinese. Chinese third grade copy, pasted weapons are nothing but a hyped up garbage.
At the Indo-China border you cannot bring your goodies in treacherous terrain that leaves china to only use ballistic missiles or hilli-bound foot crawlers to eventually face the Indians on foot. China is at huge disadvantage with all it's rolling machinery unable to reach to the border.

P.S: You should look at the map and terrain before giving your personal opinion on the Indo-Tibetan Border plans.

Just about the whole range of Chinese tech is based on clones of late 70s early 80s Soviet and Western models. To say China can skip from being 25-30 years behind to the latest fighter in one try is quite absurd. To say China is beyond Russia is outrageous. Russia has yet to give China technology that is post CCCP, for the obvious reason of IP theft. Combine that with the Tienanmen embargo and closure of Israeli exports, China has screwed herself out of all sources of advanced technology. Perfect example of how bad it is for China is the need to import old UKRAINIAN technology. We know J-XX will be "modified J-10", so J-XX is in fact J-10B and in no way is it 5th generation or any match for PAK FA. If China is lucky it will be analog to a modern F-16, not an early block like the current J-10.

this might be off topic
A lot respectable members here made conclusion that Vayag can never move again because of this and that, but I found that recently more and more evidences showing Vayag is right on track to enter service in the coming 2-3 years, for example: China coyied su-33, test the engine on Vayag and now fitting in Radar and Chinese copy of Ram. And guess what, the Chinese government never mentioned anything regarding all these. On the other hand, Indian government has much better transparency, it broadcast any progress on those military projects world wide.
So, here I bet Mr Vladimir is wrong on "We know J-XX will be "modified J-10", so J-XX is in fact J-10B", and we can see the result in no too long time, please be patience.
P.S
Badguy, I really appreciate when you post real pictures to support your claim on Chinese high speed train, hopefully you do the same thing for other chinese project, let's not to exagerate the progress, wait till you see a real picture.

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J10 as it stands now compares favourably with anything IAF has except for for Su30 MKI. 


What about the MIG 29s? All MiG-29s will be upgraded to MiG-29SMT level with latest avionics, engine, Zhuk-ME radar, weapon control systems by 2013. And also the MIG 29Ks that are coming.







:special16::special10:

Varyag was a rusted empty hulk when China bought it; no boilers, no engines, no electrical fittings, deteriorated bulkheads which is why it was planned for the scrap yard. To make her operational, she will have to be put in dry dock for years, total rewiring, set of boilers and engines cut into the hull, reinforced bulkheads, replace any deteriorated sections of the hull. It is a total disaster area that makes Gorshkov's restoration a piece of cake. China doesn't make the engines needed to run it nor has it been cut open to place anything they could get from Ukraine. It was only in dry dock for 9 months before they towed her back to pier side, isn't enough time to do anything but clean off the barnacles.

You mean that picture of the Su-30MK with canards? That isn't a copy of a carrier borne aircraft but a serving fighter with PLAN. We know J-XX will be a modified copy of J-10 because PLAAF says it will. Or maybe you can't read Chinese??

just on the contary, Chinese avionics and radars are better than Russia's,because CHinese electronics industry base now is far consolidated than Russia's.

What Russia's is better than China is absolutely not avionics and eletronics,but airdynamic and engine.

well, those really pictures are usually not what many of Indians here like facing.

FYI, India uses most of the French, Israel and Indian avionics, a very little of the Russian ones. So, still india has a edge over the avionics which is the heart of the modern warfare.

On the other hand Chinese tried to reverse the Phalcon but failed miserably and they got the KLJ (dont remember the name). Better try to stop reversing and can burn some money in the R&D to make some quality items.

I am sure you made the error because of your lack of grasp over the English Language. You could be forgiven for that since there is no doubt that you all are rather handicapped in this area of expertise.

The actual saying is putting the cart before the horse.

Therefore, I find it amusing that you should be observing donkeys wherever you see.

In England, donkeys did not pull carts. Horses did. Hence, the saying is of horse and not donkey. But then, those who see donkeys everywhere and hardly any horse as beasts of burden, can obviously make the mistake.

As regards our PM, Manmohan, he is done a good job so much so that by pursuing Narishimha Rao's 'Look East' Policy, he has spooked Wen and China so much so that the latter is alarmed and the former coming hotfoot to India to iron out the recent dadagiris, committed by China.

The chicken are coming home to roost as they say in English!

you had better fix your indigenous AWAC and satellite navigation system first ,then talk loudly. otherwise it is just another "putting the cart before the donkey".

Russian electronics are COTS, mostly from Taiwan and S. Korea integrated the way we need them into our more advanced systems. So no, Chinese avionics are not better than Russian when we have better software engineers and labs that can integrate that technology into weapons grade application. Our mechanical, software and radar engineering are far superior to what China can provide.

I think you are not aware that we are first country to get military grade signal from Glonass. so forget about our Satellite navigation systems we have better than yours. Regarding Awacs its waiting for delivery of planes and sub systems are ready .

True, we have to gain capability in developing many thing indigenously, but we have developed many things indigenously already, haven't we? Don't you think PRC needs to first develop at least one thing indigenously without copying, pirating and reverse engineering from others, before sermonising others loudly?

Really? Could you provide some references please? I know Chinese companies mass produce laptops and cell phones. However, a RADAR is a different ball game. I was under the impression that all the Chinese Electronics Industry, and the consolidation thereof, is by virtue of US companies setting up manufacturing plants in PRC for commercial products. I really doubt China has made some enviable progress in defense related electronics.

I could be wrong, but you have to convince me with some references.

That is quite true. The kind of software that is being developed only in the city of Novosibirsk itself is mind boggling. It will be off topic because I know only of non-military projects, but PRC is in no way ahead of Russia in electronics and software when it comes to defense.