J20 Stealth Fighter

[LETHALFORCE]

guy, only 3 countries,USA,Russia and CHina , can develope 5G birds.

Of course, if united, EU also could devleope one.but UK,France and Germany always quarrel with each...so

China against the world,China will lose .

 

[badguy2000]

SO ? They are going to get F35 and will start working on 5th generation very soon. Who know USA may reopen F22 Raptor production lines.

well, as I know. CHinese military experts on TV interviews seem to quite belittle F35 and think it is a "white elephant". of course they quite appreciate F22 and think only F22 is a real 5G bird.

BTW, they seems also confident that pakfak is just a "low-end" 5G bird like F35.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

guy, only 3 countries,USA,Russia and CHina , can develope 5G birds.

Of course, if united, EU also could devleope one.but UK,France and Germany always quarrel with each...so

What about India we are developing one too. Our LCA is also more advanced than your J-10 and JF-17. Aerodynamically may be the Chinese version could be more maneuverable but ours is made of composites and advanced avionics which make it 4th generation where as J-10 and JF-17 are 3rd generation.

 

[sayareakd]

BG wait some time all the private companies would come out with 5G fighters

 

[sayareakd]

after some time even Pakistan would come out with 5G fighter, ofcouse it can take care of 6G chines aircraft.

 

[SHASH2K2]

well, as I know. CHinese military experts on TV interviews seem to quite belittle F35 and think it is a "white elephant". of course they quite appreciate F22 and think only F22 is a real 5G bird.

BTW, they seems also confident that pakfak is just a "low-end" 5G bird like F35.

Well at least PAK- FA will have its own Engine and RADAR and Avionics . Those components will not be cheap copy of any other countries planes. Develop a normal Engine first and then a supercruise one before you can dream of comparing it with PAK FA .

 

[SHASH2K2]

Most important factor I for got to mention about Chinese AESA radars. Unlike other radars across the world they donot work on Doppler principle. China has invented a new principle for their RADARS to work.

 

[rapidkiss]

I don't believe MIG Would directly help the Chinese , it would be far too big of a political hot potato for Putin and co. but what is far more likely is that maybe a bunch of retired MIG engineers who had experience with the 1.44 and other 5th gen concepts got really good post retirement benefits from Zhongnanhai the likes of which the Kremlin could not match!

Agreed. Another question would be what Russians can get out of such cooperation? Obviously, helping CN to finish up J20 while T50 project is going on does not seem to be in Russia's best interest both economically and politically, does it?

More, given the benefit of doubt that such assistance does exist, it is still hard to draw even the rough conclusion about the depth and width of it.

Just my personal opinions. Cheers.

 

[badguy2000]

Most important factor I for got to mention about Chinese AESA radars. Unlike other radars across the world they donot work on Doppler principle. China has invented a new principle for their RADARS to work.

guy, it is widely reported that J10B is using AESA.

IMO, CHina-made radar and avionics might be more advanced than Russia ones...

To CHinese, the only troublesome is engine......that is why Russans still think they have chance to sell SU35 to CHinese.

 

[SHASH2K2]

guy, it is widely reported that J10B is using AESA.

I know it BG . Even AESA work on doppler principle . AESA is nothing but a new technology\ device that uses same old doppler principle . Thats why I always say about you. You open your mouth and think Later . Sometimes its better to keep quite of you dont know what you are talking about .

 

[Godless-Kafir]

guy, it is widely reported that J10B is using AESA.

IMO, CHina-made radar and avionics might be more advanced than Russia ones...

To CHinese, the only troublesome is engine......that is why Russans still think they have chance to sell SU35 to CHinese.

So far all J-10 inducted in the AF have Mechanically Scanned Planar Array Radar. AESA on J10-B is purely on R&D trials and i dont think it is going to be comparable to anything in the west.

 

[SHASH2K2]

IMO, CHina-made radar and avionics might be more advanced than Russia ones...

To CHinese, the only troublesome is engine......that is why Russans still think they have chance to sell SU35 to CHinese.

I know that too BG . Thats the reason Pakistanis are dieing to downgrade engine , radar and avionics of JF 17 with help of France .

 

[black eagle]

What China's New J-20 Stealth Fighter Means for the F-35 JSF and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-311210-1.html

 

[black eagle]

 

[gogbot]

guy, only 3 countries,USA,Russia and CHina , can develope 5G birds.

Of course, if united, EU also could devleope one.but UK,France and Germany always quarrel with each...so

I think that's rather imperialist view based on the security council that won't hold up against today's realities.
Given sufficient resources , infrastructure and expertise its now out of anyone's grasp.
Korea , Japan and perhaps Sweden are already mulling their own projects.

We all know the Russian bird has a Indian stake in it , and the Russians need India for financial reasons to complete their work.
India has its own project apart from that.
Who knows even Brazil may join the fray.

5th gen is not the cutting edge anymore , The Americans have moved on and we are all playing catch 20 years later.

Which ever way you play it.
The F-35 is going to flood air fleets all round the globe. Almost every NATO member or ally is going to get one.
Those who don't will have to to get the PAK-FA/FGFA may be even the J-20.

There is a pressing need for 5th gen aircraft , don't think the current club of US , Russia and China is going to stay static.
India's up next , followed closely by the Japanese.

By the way the Jap's have all the reason in the world to get their ATD-X in the air now. Heck odds are now they will do it faster than India.

F-35 , Pak-Fa/FGFA , J-20 , AMCA , ATD-X
All those countries who have to to either buy it or build it , who gets what and who builds what
the next 10 years will be very interesting for military aviation.

 

[DeletedUser]

New clearer pictures

 

[Tshering22]

http://www.defenceforum.in/forum/showthread.php?p=217184#post217184

read this post by a chinese member here MINGHEY who acknowledges the involvement of many top russian scientists in many top projects in China , its not a secret and the chinese know it for sure and all the simple assumptions taking concrete shape now

I would definitely lead to believe that, A.V. Since the 90s, the USSR collapse has been a boon for Chinese military industries who simply got a golden egg-laying goose in the form of Russia's chaotic situation and welcomed all Russian engineers for money to assist Chinese aerospace majors in their ability to design and develop their own aircraft. If one takes a careful look between Lavi and J-10 for example, one would notice that the latter has some characteristics of Su-27's spine and upper fuselage areas along with the design of bubble canopy that strongly resembled Russian Su-27; all while Lavi in its true form was nothing more than a delta-canard configuration F-16 that gave it the performance edge.

By the time Russia recovered in the hands of Putin, it was too late since most of the tech know-how had been given away by the contract engineers. Hence today Chinese have been able to cover at least a decade of gap between you and them.

 

[gogbot]

Agreed. Another question would be what Russians can get out of such cooperation? Obviously, helping CN to finish up J20 while T50 project is going on does not seem to be in Russia's best interest both economically and politically, does it?

More, given the benefit of doubt that such assistance does exist, it is still hard to draw even the rough conclusion about the depth and width of it.

Just my personal opinions. Cheers.

This is not the Russian government helping China.

They are the thousands of Russian Scientists and engineers without a job since the fall of the Soviet union.
China recruited them all in huge numbers and put them to work. Today , some go back to Russia. But most still work with their new jobs in places like china , Israeli companies and else ware.
Heck even Australia companies hired some of these guys.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

http://www.china-defense-mashup.com/?cat=13

The future of China's fifth-generation stealth fighter

2010-12-30 (China Military News cited from rian.ru and written by Ilya Kramnik) -- Both experts and amateurs who have studied the blurred photos of an unfamiliar fighter jet on a runway in China have concluded that Beijing has started testing its fifth-generation stealth fighter.

The J-20 prototype is expected to rival the U.S. F-22 and the Russian T-50 fighters. But is China ready to start mass-producing the aircraft? How good is the prototype?

Experts call it a combination of the Russian and U.S. fifth-generation fighters, but that greatly simplifies matters. In the last 20 years, China has been working closely with Russia to develop a modern fighter jet. But the J-20 is not simply a copy of a Russian design. Rather China has tried to build a completely new aircraft based on the technology and knowledge it has gained during its years of cooperation with Russia.


2010-12-30 (China Military News cited from rian.ru and written by Ilya Kramnik) -- Both experts and amateurs who have studied the blurred photos of an unfamiliar fighter jet on a runway in China have concluded that Beijing has started testing its fifth-generation stealth fighter.

The J-20 prototype is expected to rival the U.S. F-22 and the Russian T-50 fighters. But is China ready to start mass-producing the aircraft? How good is the prototype?

Experts call it a combination of the Russian and U.S. fifth-generation fighters, but that greatly simplifies matters. In the last 20 years, China has been working closely with Russia to develop a modern fighter jet. But the J-20 is not simply a copy of a Russian design. Rather China has tried to build a completely new aircraft based on the technology and knowledge it has gained during its years of cooperation with Russia.

The future of the new Chinese fighter will depend on several factors.

engine

It is not clear what kind of engine the plane will have. Some say it will use the prospective Chinese-made WS-15 engine with a maximum thrust exceeding 18,000 kg, but the engine is still in the pipeline.

China has been unable to reproduce Russia's highly efficient high-temperature turbofan AL-31F engine, designed in the early 1980s and currently mounted on the Su-27 fighter and its modifications. The engines for Sukhoi planes manufactured in China are made in Russia and then assembled and adjusted in China.

The AL-31F engine is also mounted on China's J-10 fighter planes. The engine's Chinese analogue, the WS-10, is less efficient than the Russian prototype.

 

[Kunal Biswas]