Indian diplomat arrested, handcuffed in US for visa fraud

[W.G.Ewald]

This pretty much sums up what people are talking about in this thread.

If Devyani brings a maid to make her life easy, she should goto court, because it doesnt go with the rules of the host country, when it was totally in accordance with vccr.

But at the same time asking the Americans to play by the rules of the host country,which they are breaking,it is deemed "making their lives a living hell".

Hmmm.....

To repeat, let India bring charges against Americans according to its laws. Let DK make her case in a US court. We see her advocate on TV.

The Rule of Law: 1. If the facts are against you, argue the law.
2. If the law is against you, argue the facts. 3. If the facts
and the law are against you, yell like hell.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Well we are waiting our options in the mean time let all the Consular employee should feel the heat and let them be guessing who will be strip and cavity search in Indian Jail.

Yes, this thread will soon be overtaken by events.

 

[pmaitra]

The US has lost India for a good 50 years now. Good luck to US plans to be a credible force in Asia now. This will take time to sink in, when the typical US narcissism wears out and they begin to smell the coffee, like they did when they decided to withdraw sanctions.

At least, the US can bleat around that they were "upholding" their law.

 

[happy]

India can do that by bringing credible charges. Can it do that if the only reason is revenge? The DK case must be settled in a court if the accused is to be vindicated.

I don't think that there is any dearth of reasonable charges against American Diplomats in India.

How can DK be vindicated in the court when the court itself is a Kangaroo court. Is America willing to go to trial in the International Court ??

 

[happy]

No business as usual till Devyani Khobragade issue resolved: India

New Delhi: India on Monday made it clear to the US that it cannot be "business as usual" between the two sides till the Devyani Khobragade issue is resolved.

This was conveyed by Vikram Doraiswami, Joint Secretary (Americas), to US Ambassador Nancy Powell when she met him at South Block here. Doraiswami firmly put across to the US envoy that "it is your process and you have to sort it out", sources said.

New Delhi's assertion assumes significance in the context of the January 13 deadline for the indictment in New York of senior diplomat Khobragade on visa fraud charges.

The US said last month it is proceeding with the prosecution of Khobragade and has no intention of withdrawing the case of visa fraud against her.

India has been demanding the withdrawal of the case against her and an apology from the US for the treatment meted out to the 39-year-old diplomat, including a strip search and detention with criminals after her arrest on December 12.

The incident led to strong protests by the Indian government and widespread indignation in India. At the time of her arrest, Khobragade was the Deputy Consul General in New York. She was subsequently transferred to India's Permanent Mission to the UN.

A 1999-batch IFS officer, Khobragade was arrested on charges of making false declarations in a visa application for her maid Sangeeta Richard. She was released on a USD 250,000 bond.

India retaliated by downgrading privileges of a certain category of US diplomats among other steps last month.

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Now that is what I like about Diplomacy. MMS has stepped out of the picture and the big boys have started the game. Let us see !!

 

[roma]

The US has lost India for a good 50 years now. Good luck to US plans to be a credible force in Asia now. This will take time to sink in, when the typical US narcissism wears out and they begin to smell the coffee, like they did when they decided to withdraw sanctions.
At least, the US can bleat around that they were "upholding" their law.

Bro - in the end even the high up decision makers in any country , including the usa , are human

while i do admire today's usa Americans for doing all they can ( most of them not all - especially the younger generation - i.e those who are now in their twenties ) to not discriminate ethnically as far as possible , there
nevertheless is a deep-seated subconscious assessment of who are "capable" and who are not

our image as portrayed by the strangely clothed ( by european standards and point of view ) gandhi and nehru
plus our early days extreme poverty has been deeply ingrained into most euros and usa americans

so while they will swear on the hearts that there is absolutely zero ethnic discrimination all of this DK affair
nevertheless, i do maintain that it is in their subconscious , that they will never see india as an equal partner - they will always see us as a junior partner - to be fair much the same as they see japan or s korea as a junior partner , plus to them we indians have all those unhygienic images associated with ourselves .

it is in the subconscious , not consciously .

so forget about any kind of partnership - until say 50 years hence when we become the #1 or #2 economy in the world
right now we cant get our akash tablet done - despite all that hooohahh on the world news, tiny south korea is doing samsung
and we dont have a global brand mobile phone

just forget partnership with the usa ......were better off with the Russians
sure the Russians see themselves as superior - but indian money means a lot to them so they do their best to be nice about it
and we have fared better with them in the past - we do have a workable track record
not so with the usa - hardly were we almost getting somewhere and this has posed a reality check

friendship with the usa s a dream - but dreams must at some point translate into reality ....that hast happened despite us breaking all our rules to facilitate it

forget usa i say - they do give us postgrad scholarships bcos they need the research activity
thats about as far as it will ever go , till we change our image

 

[happy]

Pakistan backs India on Devyani Khobragade issue - The Economic Times

NEW DELHI: Pakistan sided with India on the row over the treatment meted out to Devyani Khobragade in the US and said such treatment should not be meted to any official of another country.

"In the entire world, there is only one way...there is a long history to this...the respect for Vienna Convention...the Vienna Convention ought to be respected in letter and spirit by everybody," Pakistan High Commissioner Salman Bashir said on the sidelines of an event when asked about his reaction to the issue.

Khobragade, 39-year-old 1999 batch IFS officer, was arrested in New York on December 12 on charges of making false declarations in a visa application for her maid Sangeeta Richard and subjected to strip and cavity search.

This had sparked an outrage in India and resulted in government hitting back with a set of reprisal measures enforcing strict "reciprocity" and withdrawal of extra privileges to US diplomats in India.

Former Pakistan Foreign Secretary Shaharyar M Khan said this kind of treatment should not be meted out to diplomats.

"This kind of treatment with diplomats should not happen. It is written clearly in Vienna convention -- both for diplomatic and consular conduct..under it one cannot arrest any diplomat especially if that diplomat has said that he or she has immunity..Every country has signed it..." Khan said.


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Blood is thicker than water. Thanq Pakistan !!

This proves mine as well as most of the Indians on DFIs stand that, DK in fact informed the NYPD that she has immunity while she was being arrested.

 

[happy]

US implies Indian govt party to human trafficking - Hindustan Times

Raising the pitch, New Delhi has questioned the motive of the US government in making the maidservant of diplomat Devyani Khobragade — charged with visa fraud and underpaying her nanny — a victim of trafficking, which by implication meant government of India was party to it.

In a serious charge, New Delhi has conveyed to Washington that the way the family of the maidservant Sangeeta Richard was evacuated from India just before the diplomat's arrest on December 12 on T visas — given to the kith and kin of the trafficked persons — and air tickets purchased by the US government further adds to the "doubtful motives of the US."

Sangeeta Richard, nanny of Khobragade had traveled to US on an official passport and her visa was granted on a note from the ministry of external affairs. Indian side also pointed out that the definition of trafficking under the Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons¸ adopted by the United Nations General Assembly in 2000 and entered into force on 25 December 2003.

In New Delhi's opinion, there are no grounds whatsoever to support US claims that Richard is a victim of human trafficking.

India side cites that the Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons defines Trafficking in Persons as "the recruitment, transportation, transfer, harbouring or receipt of persons, by means of the threat or use of force or other forms of coercion, of abduction, of fraud, of deception, of the abuse of power or of a position of vulnerability"¦"

In Richard's case, she travelled to the US on an official passport under an employment contract "signed by her voluntarily".

US embassy in New Delhi didn't respond to an email from HT seeking its views on the Indian charges.

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@asianobserve foot in mouth ain't it ??? I told you that the maid was on official passport and was thereby a GOI employee. Yet you made fun of me. Now it is in the light, who is being made a fool.

 

[happy]

More reasons why US might have behaved in this manner......

Choosing goodwill over rancour - The Hindu

The U.S. may have secret agreements with some countries granting their officers at the consulates immunity. However, it felt no need for such an agreement with India as its consular officers were already afforded personal immunity

The arrest of Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade and the humiliating treatment meted out to her has triggered an unprecedented row between India and the United States. Asking the U.S. to tender an apology has not helped in resolving the logjam. The U.S. is not used to tendering apologies, especially when it feels that its laws have been broken. Furthermore, the insistence on an apology has only hardened the U.S. position. Our objective should be to identify core issues which have precipitated this and earlier incidents with a view to finding both short-term as well as long-term solutions. In any case, the U.S. has expressed regret over the circumstance relating to the arrest.

One issue that has got highlighted time and again is the U.S.'s refusal to grant diplomatic immunity to persons whom it regards as Consular officials even if they are diplomats of the sending country.

On the other hand, India had been affording full personal immunity to diplomats and their family members posted at the U.S. Consulates in India. There are four such consulates at Mumbai, Chennai, Kolkata and Hyderabad. All U.S. diplomats at these consulates as well as their family members were issued ID cards which stated that they had personal immunity in civil and criminal matters. These cards were similar in this respect to the cards issued to U.S. diplomats posted at their embassy in New Delhi.

Such unilateral gestures in diplomacy are often taken for granted. Following Ms. Khobragade's arrest, however, the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) has withdrawn the ID cards of U.S. diplomats at the consulates and replaced them with cards which are similar to the ones issued by the State Department to diplomats posted at our consulates in the U.S. Moreover, as a reciprocal measure, no ID cards are now given to the family members of such diplomats. Reciprocity has also been enforced in some other issues. The U.S. Ambassador will not be treated any differently at Indian airports than the Indian Ambassador is treated at U.S. airports.

Previous incidents
One wonders why the MEA took so long to enforce reciprocity, which is a time-tested mantra in diplomatic links. Countries afford privileges and immunity on a reciprocal basis. Since we were not insistent on reciprocity, the U.S. side felt under no pressure whatsoever. Another diplomat working with me in New York and I were dragged to U.S. courts and accused of trafficking and human rights violations over nothing more than wage disputes. Krittika Biswas, a Grade 12 student and daughter of my vice-consul was arrested from her school in front of her fellow students on the charge of cyber bullying her teacher. She was handcuffed and kept in detention for 28 hours with prostitutes and drug addicts even though she denied the alleged crime and also said that she had a diplomatic passport. The U.S. authorities asserted that she did not have any immunity. My colleagues and I had to run from pillar to post to get her released. She was not readmitted to her school but was sent instead to a reform school. Later, it was found another student, and not Krittika, was responsible for the cyber bullying. He was neither arrested nor detained.

The MEA should have taken appropriate action after the very first case when diplomatic immunity was denied by the U.S.; it should have applied reciprocity then and there. This time, the mood is quite different. South Block is of the view that enough is enough.

Bilateral arrangements
Now that we have at long last enforced reciprocity in regard to diplomatic immunity, the State Department may be willing to find a feasible solution. It may not like to take the risk of some U.S. diplomat posted at a consulate in India landing in trouble with our law enforcement agencies, whose standard procedures would perhaps be as detailed as those of the New York police.

What is the way out of the deadlock? The booklet of instructions issued by the U.S. State Department to law enforcement officers gives us a clue. While stating that consular officials have only limited personal immunity, there is a paragraph on special bilateral arrangements which states: "In some cases, a country and the United States have concluded a bilateral consular agreement that grants to members of the staff of their consulates (provided they are not U.S. nationals, legal permanent residents, or permanently resident in the United States) privileges and immunities approximating those afforded diplomatic agents. Law enforcement officers should be aware that these arrangements are not uniform and the State Department identification cards issued to these persons reflect the appropriate level of immunity...."

Clearly, the U.S. can have a bilateral agreement with us on this matter if it feels that there is a need to do so. It has been widely reported in the media that 49 Russians working at their Permanent Mission in New York, the Consulate and the Trade Office have recently been accused of the crime of Medicaid fraud by Attorney Preet Bharara. The U.S. has placed this matter of alleged Medicaid fraud in the public domain only when all the Russians allegedly involved had left the country, are in the Embassy at Washington DC or in the Permanent Mission and cannot be prosecuted. This may be because of a secret, bilateral agreement between Russia and the U.S. which grants their officers and staff working at the consulates privileges and immunity that are given to diplomats.

The U.S. may have signed such agreements with some EU countries and China. However, it did not feel the need for such a bilateral agreement with India till now as its diplomats working in consulates were already afforded personal immunity. Now that India has enforced reciprocity, the State Department may be open to the idea of a bilateral agreement. If negotiations for such an agreement are carried out in an atmosphere of goodwill rather than rancour, the State Department could perhaps intervene and find ways of closure to the Khobragade case as well as other past cases which remain on record.

Let me clarify that I am not making a pitch for allowing diplomats posted at consulates in the U.S. to violate local laws with impunity, but only for affording them the sort of immunity as is given to their counterparts posted at the embassy in Washington DC.

Status of the assistant
In any such negotiations, India will also have to take up the issue relating to the unique status of an India-based domestic assistant. It is not that Indian diplomats are so spoilt or feudal (as has been suggested in some quarters) that they cannot do without domestic help. Most of them do not take such help on their postings. However, some do find it necessary to have such help for various reasons.

Then, there is the issue of representational entertainment. A senior official such as a consul general has to host a number of receptions, lunches and dinners in exercise of representational duties. Outside catering works out to be rather expensive, and senior diplomats are obliged to have a domestic assistant who can help them discharge their representational obligations.

Keeping all such factors in mind, the Government of India has been following a system of sending a domestic assistant with a diplomat to enable the latter to perform his functions. The government treats the domestic assistant as being on official duty. An official passport is issued to the domestic assistant, and the visa is applied through an official note verbale. All expenses such as to and fro air passage (as also the passage for home leave), accommodation, boarding and medical cover are met by the government. The cash emoluments of domestic assistants are built into the emoluments of the officers themselves. Generally, the domestic assistants save their entire cash emoluments. The India-based domestic assistant is not like the ordinary domestic worker in the U.S. who may be paid a wage of $10 an hour but has to meet the cost of accommodation, food, medical cover, etc.

Since the government bears all expenses of the domestic assistant, it considers the assistant as a service staff member like India-based chauffeurs and security guards to whom the MEA's rules and regulations apply. However, the U.S. considers such persons as ordinary domestic workers who are covered by U.S. labour laws. India has to try and persuade the State Department to treat the India-based domestic assistant as a special category of foreign worker governed by the laws of India; this is what the eminent Indian American attorney Ravi Batra recently opined. A dialogue between the MEA and the State Department will give much needed clarity to the status of the India-based domestic assistant instead of prolonging a systemic conflict, resulting in more court cases.

(Prabhu Dayal was India's Consul General in New York.)

 

[prohumanity]

just forget partnership with the usa ......were better off with the Russians sure the Russians see themselves as superior - but they nevertheless do their best to be nice about it
and we have fared better with them in the past - we do have a workable track record
their friendship with the usa s a dream - but dreams must at some point translate into reality ....that hast happened despite us breaking all our rules to facilitate it

forget usa i say - they do give us postgrad scholarships bcos they need the research activity
thats about as far as it will ever go , till we change our image[/QUOTE]


I agree.....Russians have been most dependable friends and partners for India. Its very risky to trust US govt and Mega Corporations
when it comes to India's security.As far an average American...by and large Americans are good and tolerant people (my experience in last 20 years living here in USA)
Indians have positive image as educated and smart hard working people. I think racism against Indians is minimal in USA.

 

[pmaitra]

To this post: http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/...-handcuffed-us-visa-fraud-145.html#post837169

Krittika Biswas, a Grade 12 student and daughter of my vice-consul was arrested from her school in front of her fellow students on the charge of cyber bullying her teacher. She was handcuffed and kept in detention for 28 hours with prostitutes and drug addicts even though she denied the alleged crime and also said that she had a diplomatic passport. The U.S. authorities asserted that she did not have any immunity. My colleagues and I had to run from pillar to post to get her released. She was not readmitted to her school but was sent instead to a reform school. Later, it was found another student, and not Krittika, was responsible for the cyber bullying. He was neither arrested nor detained.

I don't agree with this.

I am in favour of arresting US diplomats, even if on false charges, and harassing them, and dragging it for another year. Shameless jokers don't apologize. Just give them back as good as they give. It is time to teach those spoilt US diplomats what equality means. Shove them in Indian jails over the weekend and let them enjoy the company of the hardcores that inhabit such places. India seriously needs to get a spine and be willing to court international isolation.

I am not at all liking this dragging of feet. US courts have no jurisdiction over this matter at all.

 

[roma]

Krittika Biswas, a Grade 12 student and daughter of my vice-consul was arrested from her school in front of her fellow students on the charge of cyber bullying her teacher. She was handcuffed and kept in detention for 28 hours with prostitutes and drug addicts even though she denied the alleged crime and also said that she had a diplomatic passport. The U.S. authorities asserted that she did not have any immunity. My colleagues and I had to run from pillar to post to get her released. She was not readmitted to her school but was sent instead to a reform school. Later, it was found another student, and not Krittika, was responsible for the cyber bullying. He was neither arrested nor detained.

the usa wants to beat us into submission - a sort of initiation process to become their strategic junior partner

if we will with gandhian sagacity say that we wont retaliate , because and "eye for an eye only makes the ...."..

then we MAY qualify to be that junior partner ...just like japan being nuked twice has put up and shut up

 

[happy]

The dust has settled and Indian calculated pressure has worked and Devyani Khobragade has been exempted from personal court appearances. In all probability, her UN diplomatic credentials will be approved by the UN and US State department, thereby facilitating her return to India or staying in the US as long as the Indian government wishes to keep her as a UN diplomat. The incident has however created a bit of mistrust between the two honey-mooning partners for the first time in their partnership spread over 22 years. It is said that friendship with USA is more harmful than its enmity. Sooner than later, India will rue its decision to bed with USA but will be unable to free itself from the US magic charm.

Tumult over arrest of Khobragade

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I dont know what this idiot was blabbering about but his last para has some sense in it.

 

[Free Karma]

Tumult over arrest of Khobragade

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I dont know what this idiot was blabbering about but his last para has some sense in it.

I'd wait for a more credible source, he seems to confusing the pre-trial waiver.

 

[pmaitra]

I'd wait for a more credible source, he seems to confusing the pre-trial waiver.

True. What @happy was trying to say is that it is better to have the US as an enemy, than as a friend.

Personally, I'd rather have an enemy that I know, than have a friend that I don't know (one that can backstab).

 

[pmaitra]

True. What @happy was trying to say is that it is better to have the US as an enemy, than as a friend.

Personally, I'd rather have an enemy that I know, than have a friend that I don't know (one that can backstab).

A counter point would be: Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

I think this is a second lesson learning time. The first was the Krittika Biswas saga done by the incompetent NYPD thugs. So, what is the way forward? Keep the US diplomats on their toes. Keep harassing them. If we cannot give as good as we get, we deserve nothing less than indignity.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Lawyer for Indian diplomat seeks delay in visa fraud case - chicagotribune.com

A lawyer for Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade is seeking to postpone proceedings in a visa fraud case that has created tensions between the United States and India, citing the need to continue "meaningful discussions" with the prosecution.

In a letter to a federal magistrate judge in New York, Khobragade's lawyer requested an extension of the time by which the U.S. government must file an indictment or commence a preliminary hearing.

The lawyer, Daniel Arshack, confirmed he filed the letter in court but would not comment about a possible resolution of the case.

Indians will now complain about delay of justice and absence of a speedy trial [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedy_Trial_Clause].

That implies to me that he is having trouble making a case which would exonerate his client.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

BBC News - Devyani Khobragade row: India targets US nationals

"Spouses and children have no more immunity. So if there is a parking offence or... something else happening in Bangalore etcetera, they would be held liable."

DFI is a microcosm of India; that is, it is like being pecked to death by ducks.

 

[W.G.Ewald]

Lawyer for Indian diplomat seeks delay in visa fraud case

A lawyer for Indian diplomat Devyani Khobragade is seeking to postpone proceedings in a visa fraud case that has created tensions between the United States and India, citing the need to continue "meaningful discussions" with the prosecution.

That is, anything but defending the actions of his client

 

[happy]

A counter point would be: Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer.

I think this is a second lesson learning time. The first was the Krittika Biswas saga done by the incompetent NYPD thugs. So, what is the way forward? Keep the US diplomats on their toes. Keep harassing them. If we cannot give as good as we get, we deserve nothing less than indignity.

Exactly. Thanq for elaborating.